CP650 Slow/Lagging Operation

[Kyle Mikolajczyk]

Our CP650 started to act up a few days ago. After booting, trying to use the CP650 at all results in very delayed responses (around 8 seconds). For example, moving the volume knob the volume and display take several seconds to respond. Also, pressing mute or unmute takes about 8 seconds to actually mute or unmute. Switching sources show a similar delay. Sound, however, still seems to work find with AES, non-sync (I have not tested 35mm/70mm but I assume it's still working). Any ideas what could be the issue? Rebooting does nothing, and it passes self-checks.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

On CP-650's ALWAYS check the power supply first before anything else.... Lost track of how many I rebuilt over the years, 30+ at least. If possible substitute another known working supply in place of the one in there. If it's not that, then you have a board level issue going on. You could also try running the latest update for it just to be sure the firmware has not some how been corrupted. Beyond that I reccomend trading it in on a new Trinnov processor.

[Pete Naples]

Even the Trinnov isn't much use for 35mm Mark

AFAIK the only CP in production with native 35mm capability is the AP25.

[Jim Cassedy]

Is your CP-650 'networked' to anything, such as your automation system or a DMA-8 or similar device? I know the communications abilities of the '650 are quite primitive by today's standards, but if there is anything connected to the serial "Automation" connector in the back, I'd try disconnecting it. I'm not sure if the RJ-45 LAN jack in the back was ever used. but just for fun I'd unplug any cable that might be plugged into it also. I suggest this because in one of the screening rooms I've worked at, I had a CP-650 that started acting "funny" and the problem turned out to be some noise or nonsense on that AUTOMATION connector that was coming from another piece of equipment and 'confusing' the CP-650 logic. Disconnecting that cable caused the processor to revert to working normally. Replacing some really sloppy wiring in the rack (no I hadn't originally installed it!) solved the problem. I suspect an intermittent ground loop or some crossed conductors were at the root of the problem. I also had a similar problem at another venue, when a faulty DMA-8 started flooding the '650 with a wholebuncha spurious commands, causing both to go into some sort of pseudo system insanity. Disconnecting the DMA-8 immediately brought the '650 back to life. The DMA-8 was replaced with another unit.

[Martin McCaffery]

Interesting. In another thread we discussed my 650 suddenly not working with our microphones. I haven't been able to reinstall the software as suggested. A few days ago, the 650 quit taking commands from the automation (ACT) via the serial port. Now has me wondering if the software is affecting the hardware, or vice-versa.

[Marcel Birgelen]

I'm with Jim on this one. If the basic functions of your CP650 are still working, I think the poor thing is just overloaded with inputs. Those are the things I'd check first:

• If the CP650 is connected to the network, pull the Ethernet going into it to check if this improves anything. I've seen CP650s suffering from "network floods".
• Unplug anything connected to the serial port and look if that helps.
• Disconnect anything on the automation port and see if that helps.

If that doesn't help... like Mark indicated, the PSU on those things is always suspect. Maybe there is a problem with one of the power bars.

Interesting. In another thread we discussed my 650 suddenly not working with our microphones. I haven't been able to reinstall the software as suggested. A few days ago, the 650 quit taking commands from the automation (ACT) via the serial port. Now has me wondering if the software is affecting the hardware, or vice-versa.

The issue you had with the microphones, at least to me, looked like corrupt flash. Have you replaced the flash ever since?

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

Even the Trinnov isn't much use for 35mm Mark

AFAIK the only CP in production with native 35mm capability is the AP25.

All ones need is an optical preamp card aka from a Dolby, mounted and powered externally from the Trinnov. I have actually done that with optical preamps and CAT 64's. Dolby way way back even produced those as single rack mount units. Easy peasy...

[Harold Hallikainen]

The network possibility is interesting. I had various pieces of equipment that would all mess up about 7pm each day. I finally got a WireShark capture on the network port driving the equipment. Some Atmos content was flooding the network. I don't recall if it had a broadcast address or if the switch was just messed up. After I passed this info back to the customer, I did not hear further, so I don't know exactly what happened. But a network flood can slow stuff down (or crash it) as the microcontroller evaluates the incoming packets (especially if it is a broadcast).

[Martin McCaffery]

The issue you had with the microphones, at least to me, looked like corrupt flash. Have you replaced the flash ever since?

No, have not had the time to get into it and reinstall the software. Does sound more like bad flash as opposed to factory reset as all of the settings are as they should be, just every channel says [install] (and the mic inputs don't work). Not at all sure how to change the flash, so may have to call someone in to do that.

[Kyle Mikolajczyk]

Well I never expected this many responses! I was about to try the “Automation” ports and ethernet, to see if that was the issue, and before I could do that the CP650 is acting normally again. If/when this occurs again, I’ll try that, then I suspect the PSU. But to continue some conversations I see above, what ways could newer CP’s be used to be compatible with AES along with Dolby Digital 35mm? Could the CP650 just handle the DD and send the audio to a newer CP? I am just curious more than anything, as I was under the impression the CP650 was the last one to offer this compatibility.

[Kyle Mikolajczyk]

Yeah I rebooted it same issue. Unplugged the ethernet and automation cable, no change. I’m thinking PSU

[Marcel Birgelen]

If you need Dolby Digital on film, then the CP650 is the newest device out there that will do that, if you only need analog audio, there are other possibilities.

There are plenty solutions to work with different CPs, but what works best for you really depends a lot on your situation and budget. How often are you playing 35mm v.s. DCI content? If it's primarily DCI content and just a handful of 35mm movies a year, then a cheaper solution is probably more in-line with your expectations.

In the past, we used analog matrix switchers in our screening room to switch between different CPs, where we switched the analog outputs in front of the amps, nowadays, we're using Q-Sys.

[Leo Enticknap]

The NIC on a 650 works, but is stone age. In particular, only one device can have the port open at any one time. This is an issue if your 650 is configured as the audio processor in a DSS server, in which case no other device on the management LAN (e.g. an automation controller) can see it. The CP650 configuration app won't work over IP, either - just RS232.

If you need Dolby Digital on film, then the CP650 is the newest device out there that will do that

It's the only one box, plug-and-play solution. At the Egyptian, I ran a DA20 into an AP20 using an additional analog input card and GPIO to manage the dropout transitions between SR and SR-D; and of course there are numerous possibilities involving Q-Sys. But none of them gets around the fact that all the reproducers out there for the digital 35mm audio formats of the '90s (not just Dolby, but DTS and SDDS as well) are decades old, and you need them for the capture and D to A conversion. So unless your film capability is to be limited to analog SVA, you will have to try to keep some antique technology on life support.

[Steve Guttag]

It's the only one box, plug-and-play solution

CP500. I'm not saying that the CP500 doesn't have its issues (try to find them with good screens)...but it is a single box plug and play 35mm analog and Dolby Digital solution.

Me, personally, I'd have no problem using a DA20 with one's favorite film processor and even Q-SYS. I don't think one should limit themselves to just single-box solutions. If one has a CP650 and it is in good repair, great...it is likely the most compact solution too.

Leo is correct about dealing with geriatric sound equipment. There will be a degree of needing some spares to ensure longevity of capability. For anything we have in the field, we have a few of them here to ensure we can support them too.

[Pete Naples]

All ones need is an optical preamp card aka from a Dolby, mounted and powered externally from the Trinnov. I have actually done that with optical preamps and CAT 64's. Dolby way way back even produced those as single rack mount units. Easy peasy...

Mark, I've done that too, a long time ago, feeding a theatre's mixing desk. But it's not everyone could do it and it's not a plug and play solution. Still no NR, although you could easily enough stick a SRA5 or one of the other NR rack cages in the the chain. Most digital CPs will do a good job of matrix-decoding, the Trinnov certainly does.

What was the early rack mounted pre-amp, NR and Eq unit.. E36?

I used to have one, I wish I still did as I've slowly been building a wee collection of vintage Dolby CPs. IIRC I gifted it to a local film society, had it feeding a Westrex 5009 power stage. The optical pre-amp on the 5009 was decent enough but Dolby's was better having slit-loss and 2 channels. And IIRC the original Westrex one was dead. It's maybe still there for all I know.