Doremi IMB and Barco SP2K

[Leo Enticknap]

I'd be interested in everyone's thoughts on this one.

Back in September a customer upgraded from an NEC NC900C-A, to a Barco SP2K-9S. The system had a ShowVault and IMB. I transplanted the Doremi IMB into the SP2K (having first upgraded it to the current firmware and security manager), and the projector threw the following issues at me:

• Took 7-8 minutes to boot up fully
• No tamper alarm
• Errors "ICMP and/or ICP-D not recognized" initially, then when the boot sequence was complete, "IMB model not recognized."

I worked it both with Cinionic and Dolby. I put the IMB back in the old NEC and got the same problem, too - the projector and ShowVault wouldn't see it. So we concluded that the IMB was bad, and sent it off to Dolby for repair. Related to which, it had never had a battery swapout since being installed in 2014, so I hypothesized that the battery had discharged, and then immediately I powered the NEC down to decommission it, there was no power to maintain the certificate, meaning that the IMB was now buggered.

In the meantime, I installed our loaner IMS2000 in the SP2K, and it worked great.

This morning, I came back to reinstall the repaired Doremi IMB, and got exactly the same behavior as before. The SP2K simply won't see it. The old NEC is no longer at the site, so I can't check to see if installing it into the SP2K damaged it. But I fear that it might have done, given what happened last time.

We've decided to give this customer the IMS2000 to get the job in the rear view mirror: it's out of town, so there's a plane ticket, hotel, etc. required every time I have to go out here. But I'd be interested in your thoughts on this. Has anyone installed a Doremi IMB in an SP2K/4K with an ICP-D, and got it working successfully?

[Gordon McLeod]

We had a similar issues with a GDC SX2000 non AR IMB not being recognized in a NEC1000c. NEC said there are issues with the older PCI IMBs not being recognized by the machines with the single ICP PIB board like the 1000c has

[Steve Guttag]

The only IMBs I have are SX2000AR (not an SP2K/SP4K candidate), CAT745 (not an SP2K/SP4K candidate), IMS2000s (as you point out a candidate), IMS3000s (candidate and I have persionaly used in SP4Ks in multiple locations) and SR1000 (candidate).

The IMS2000 remains my most reliable server of them all now (zero failures or lost shows attributable to the server...the lost shows were due to not being powered up...not the server's fault!). So, I don't have any Showvault/IMB systems. If the need arose, I would consider moving an IMS2000, IMS3000 or the SR1000 to an SPxK projector but I suspect that the large majority will be with new servers, of which the IMS3000 and SR1000 are current production.

[Marcel Birgelen]

This morning, I came back to reinstall the repaired Doremi IMB, and got exactly the same behavior as before. The SP2K simply won't see it. The old NEC is no longer at the site, so I can't check to see if installing it into the SP2K damaged it. But I fear that it might have done, given what happened last time.

Sounds like another day in tech-paradise. Some questions that arise though:

- Are you confident the issue with your IMB was repaired?
- Have you checked with Barco/Cinionic if the ICP-D is compatible with your Doremi IMB? If that's the case and the Barco SP2K is actually damaging your IMB, I guess this will be a warranty case and Cinionic should also cover the cost for the replacement/repair of the IMB.

[Leo Enticknap]

Both Cinionic and Dolby told me that the Doremi IMB should work in an SP2K-9S with an ICP-D. Dolby also assured me that they repaired it, though I can't verify that, because there was no other projector at the site to put it in, to see. It is being shipped back to our shop, and I'll check it there when it arrives.

[Carsten Kurz]

The ICP-D tech document explicitly mentions software and hardware requirements for ICP-D+ various IMB/IMS combinations (including the Doremi). Leo certainly read through that document and followed it for troubleshooting. What is not mentioned in that document is the SP2K part... The Doremi IMB, though is so prominent, that I can't imagine there has been no prior testing between it and the SP2K series.

[Marcel Birgelen]

The ICP-D tech document explicitly mentions software and hardware requirements for ICP-D+ various IMB/IMS combinations (including the Doremi). Leo certainly read through that document and followed it for troubleshooting. What is not mentioned in that document is the SP2K part... The Doremi IMB, though is so prominent, that I can't imagine there has been no prior testing between it and the SP2K series.

I'm not implying Leo didn't do his homework in any way (shape or form :P ), but we all know that those documents may not always be 100% accurate and leading. Especially if you're facing a potential difficult warranty case, having some direct acknowledgements of the suppliers involved can become important to get your case acknowledged.

[Leo Enticknap]

I have to confess that I didn't read the ICP-D manual before this install (though of course I did when I went through the Series 4 training school). The decision to re-use this ShowVault and IMB in the new projector was not made by me: I was just told to go and install it. I therefore assumed that the two pieces of equipment were compatible with each other, and that those who made the purchasing decision had checked this beforehand. However, all that is moot, because the manual says that it should work:

ICP-D.JPG

The projector is on version 1.5.0 and the IMB on 2.8.30 (and whatever are the current firmware and SM versions as of now), so no problem there, either. No-one is disputing that there is a fault. Quite the opposite - Dolby and Cinionic were both very supportive when I reached out to them. Cinionic in the USA have referred the case to Belgium for an investigation and response, together with the diagnostic packages I downloaded while the IMB was in the projector and the projector was malfunctioning. My reason for starting this thread was to get a sense of if the problem lies with the unique hardware in this installation (e.g. there is a fault in one of the projector components), or whether the cause is a design or software glitch common to all models of the type, or even the series. That's why I was curious to know if anyone here had installed a Doremi IMB in a Series 4 Barco and got it working successfully.

So, I don't have any Showvault/IMB systems. If the need arose, I would consider moving an IMS2000, IMS3000 or the SR1000 to an SPxK projector but I suspect that the large majority will be with new servers, of which the IMS3000 and SR1000 are current production.

Not completely sure about that. The thinking in this case was that the customer wanted the benefits of upgrading the projector (no more lamp swapping, reduced power consumption, reduced maintenance, newer machine so higher reliability, etc.), but that there would be little if any benefit in upgrading the server. The ShowVault/IMB is still fully supported by Dolby and will be for at least the next 3-4 years, it still works perfectly well, an IMS3000 (which is what they would have had to buy if planning to upgrade from the outset) offers no functionality gain for what they're doing, and it would have cost in the high four figures. So in this scenario, and for several other projects I have upcoming, upgrading the projector but keeping this model of server and IMB to use with it makes sense. Of course if we were talking about a DSS220/cat745 then it wouldn't, but we're not.

That is essentially why I'm keen to get to the bottom of this. The ShowVault/IMB specifically has a few more years of life left in it, and there are customers out there who will want to take advantage of that.

[Steve Guttag]

Leo, show me the cost analysis where lamps (and related costs) and electricity add up to the cost of the new projector. I get it on new installs where the Series 4 laser projectors are priced as low or lower than new xenon projectors but on a projector one already owns, unless they are running, at least 4KW, I defy anyone to make the use-case for laser where the real savings add up. And then, take into account, LP projectors have a VERY expensive consumption item (the LP assemblies of both lasers and phosphor wheels) that are not as stable as people would like and are often rated until the lumen output drops to ½. And we haven't even talked about the image differences between xenon and laser where laser isn't necessarily, and is often, inferior to xenon.

I do understand that if one has a Showvault/IMB (and again, I have zero customers, at this time, that have them) the desire to run it into the ground too. No server makes an appreciable impact on screen, so long as it is working reliably. Some of the newer servers do bring some capabilities (e.g. HDMI 2.0) that could tip the scales. I, honestly, preferred the "box servers" of yesteryear but am also having to come to the reality that they are getting old, in computer terms, and their reliability as well as getting hard drives in their "tiny" sizes of 1TB and 2TB are becoming more of a challenge (even before the global supply issues).

[Leo Enticknap]

To preface all of this, I didn't make the purchasing decisions related to the case in question, so it wasn't my job to do that analysis. I was just told to install the projector. I wasn't involved in the transaction in any way before receiving the order to get myself on a plane and get the job done.

That having been said, if I had been involved at an earlier stage, I would have argued that lamps, and directly related costs, were not the only relevant factors. There were two other, major ones. The first is that this customer is in a remote location, a long way from the shops of any cinema projector installation and service vendor. It takes me a bare minimum of 6-7 hours to get there, meaning it's a two-day trip to do anything at that site. That's around $1,500 in travel expenses (flight, hotel, rental car, per diems, and incidentals), plus a day taken out when I would otherwise have been available for local calls. Let's call it $2.5k just to get me inside that booth.

The second is that while the projector still worked, it was seven years old, had been used intensively throughout that time (it is in the preview theater for a cable TV channel's post production facility, and was used for around 10 hours a day, five to six days a week), and was a model that is known to become more maintenance intensive and less reliable as it ages (the NC900C-A). Yes, Mark, I know that they will run forever with lots of TLC. But this one was located such that giving it that TLC is not an economically viable option. This example was overdue for the complete fan swapout, it was coming up to needing new lamps, and was approaching the age at which ICP battery failure starts to become a risk. If you add to that the fact that if it should break down in service, that's another $2.5K and possibly a delay of 2-3 days just to get me out there if what we found through the remote access PC indicates that parts were needed, the case for replacing that projector preemptively becomes strong.

If this place were a half-hour drive from our shop, the case for replacement at this point would be a much weaker one.

Some of the newer servers do bring some capabilities (e.g. HDMI 2.0) that could tip the scales.

So does the ICP-D, which I'm guessing is what sealed the deal for retaining the ShowVault/IMB. This customer plays around 70% HDMI, 25% HD-SDI, and DCPs only occasionally, to QC on the very rare occasions that one of their productions gets a theatrical release, or plays at a festival. That also likely played into the decision to replace the projector, but not the server. If the server or IMB craps out, they can still play HDMI, making fixing or replacing the server not as time critical as if they were playing DCPs all the time.

This also speaks to a broader problem in our industry. I have heard anecdotally that there is now a significant shortage of cinema projection techs, because many were laid off, retired, or took their skill set to other industries during the pandemic, and aren't interested in coming back. I personally know four people in that situation, two of them former co-workers. One of them was offered a position maintaining x-ray machines in a hospital, with 9-5 working hours, no regular travel required (only occasionally, for training), and his salary more than doubled. It's not surprising that he isn't interested in getting up at 3am and driving 150 miles to swap out a light engine in a strip mall 8-plex any more. In the last few months, we have been contacted by many customers we haven't dealt with before, wanting movie theater projector/audio/automation service, because their previous vendor either no longer exists or is no longer able to offer that service.

It's going to be difficult to attract quality replacements, because the movie theater business is now seen as a high risk (or "non-essential," as the politicians call it) career choice: all it would take is the scribble of a state governor's pen, and you could be thrown out of work again. I think this is going to be a long term problem, and if so, moving to equipment that requires as little planned maintenance by a trained tech as possible will become more of a priority.

[Steve Guttag]

Once upon a time, we had a distant customer that didn't want to change their own lamps...so...we had them buy a spare lamphouse and a shipping case and we shipped it back and forth, as needed (so maybe once per year per screen or less...they didn't have long hours). It is one of the things that Barco had an advantage as it cut way down on that tech time. We also got those lamphouses with the motors so we could remotely adjust them. The current owners of the site change their own lamps.

What I would find risky for a "new" projector (the SP2K doesn't have a long track record) at a distance is...you're the beta tester. I don't, if at all possible, use ANYTHING in its first year of production. it is just too risky and there are always growing pains. We got our SP4Ks on the cusp of their 1st year (mucked up by Covid) and the ICP-D's first year and trust me...there was a 1-year of ICP-D beta growing pains. We aren't having to do beta work with them now but it was definitely there in the 1st year.

I will say, Barco hasn't "fixed" their problem of having to "reseat" things with their S4 projectors. The support techs at Cinionic think nothing of tell you to "reseat" things without a care in the world to the actual cost of that action is. If Barco had to send a tech around the world, for free, reseating these boards, they'd have used a better connector to avoid that sink hole of a cost. I'm preemptively using DeOxit Gold on those connectors...not even waiting for their annual service. And what is this BS about having to reseat things annually? I've even had their SIM card on an S4 need to be reseated (a new one on me).

In any event, I feel for you and your "this should work" struggles.

[Leo Enticknap]

The SP2K has mostly the same components as the SP4K, the light engine (obviously) being the main difference. Agreed that during the first year or so of the Series 4 line, it could be buggy and glitchy, especially with HDMI. But from the software release that resolved the router freezing bug (it was the one before 1.4.0, IIRC), it's been pretty solid for us.

And also agreed about the reseating ritual. I also do the two-stage DeOxit treatment (D5 followed by G100) on the PCI contacts of all the cards whenever I touch a Barco, now.

[Steve Guttag]

I only use the D5 on a board that has had the problem. Then it is D5 followed by Gold. For preemptive, I just use gold.