Christie CP4220 power issue, hum and taillights flickering on and off

[Andrew Thomas]

To give a little more flavor: the projector when you send power to it does not start in standby, it starts fully on. then when you try and turn it on from the TPC, it does the opposite, fans go off and it is like
it is now in standby ?

But yeah, I’ve tried the PIB in another projector and it is dead, and I’ve tried other boards that are working in other projectors in this 4220 and they of course don’t work.

I did find a used X7 PSU with a different configuration. I think the issue is actually on the AC side of the PSU, so I figure I can take the 24v and two 12v cards out of the one that shipped in the 4220 and put them into this used X7 housing and hopefully be good to go. Though reading the previous replies, I’m wondering if I maybe have a bad relay in there somewhere which is causing it to output incorrectly (“standby” is fully on, “on” is standby)?

[Tony Bandiera Jr]

To give a little more flavor: the projector when you send power to it does not start in standby, it starts fully on. then when you try and turn it on from the TPC, it does the opposite, fans go off and it is like
it is now in standby ?

But yeah, I’ve tried the PIB in another projector and it is dead, and I’ve tried other boards that are working in other projectors in this 4220 and they of course don’t work.

I did find a used X7 PSU with a different configuration. I think the issue is actually on the AC side of the PSU, so I figure I can take the 24v and two 12v cards out of the one that shipped in the 4220 and put them into this used X7 housing and hopefully be good to go. Though reading the previous replies, I’m wondering if I maybe have a bad relay in there somewhere which is causing it to output incorrectly (“standby” is fully on, “on” is standby)?

I don't think that's a good idea or going to work either.

From the sound of all you've told us, here is what I see as the cause of the problem:

You took a power surge or brownout that damaged the standby PSU to the point of frying your PIB;
A replacement PIB gets it running but in reverse of what the TPC power up is doing;
The cards in your 4220 you want to try to swap are most likely bad due to the original failure and will either fry the PIB again in a new "X7" chassis, or damage the AC side of the swapped X7 again.

When it comes to power supply issues in such a very expensive piece of equipment, dicking around with power supply parts of unknown condition is playing a game of Russian Roulette with the consequences of causing damage beyond economical repair. (You're already looking at $2k plus for the PIB, and who knows how much to replace the faulty power supply parts).

Do you really want to risk frying a light engine or more?

This was not a "normal" power supply failure based on the symptoms you were describing. You need to find the root cause of the first breakdown. I suggest you contact Christie Tech Support, and FULLY describe EVERYTHING that you have found so far. The reverse power-up cycle is a major red flag that something else is going on, and needs to be addressed before more damage is done.

If this were my theatre (and I wasn't already a technician myself, which I am) I would stop futzing with it, get a Christie Tech in there to dive deep and check everything out, and fix it right the first time. Besides, if you do it your self and fail, not only have you wasted time, money and possibly made things worse, now you will have to pay a tech to fix it or worse, have to buy a new projector. Ultimately, it's your call.

Edited to add: Since I am not aware of your background, I made this from the viewpoint that you are an owner/operator. If you are a tech, my apologies but I stand by the point that you MUST get Christie Tech involved.

[Andrew Thomas]

The AC side of the PSU is the side that is messed up. It isn't outputting correctly to the 24v and 12v cards based on multimeter readings after I took the housing off an checked the internal connections. And I can verify that the franken-PSU is outputting correct from those 24v and 12v cards prior to connecting.

But I don't mind if it gets fried, it is getting replaced next year either way. I would rather learn more about how it works and what the cause of the problem is. Unfortunately Christie tech support is generally useless outside of getting me software updates! I've also had...not great experiences with professional techs from now four different reputable companies. They often know less than I do, and the rates that are charged only to be told what I already knew is just a non-starter for me. I wish some of the regs here were the ones being sent out. THAT I would pay for!

8 years of doing this and I can say 100% that Film-techers helping me think through problems actually resolves problems. Paying companies to send out techs just wastes time and money.

[Leo Enticknap]

The extent to which theater owners and/or operators choose to educate themselves to the point of acting as their own service/repair tech, versus calling someone in who does that for a living, is not always an easy call. It depends on a number of factors - the skills and aptitude of theater staff, geographical proximity to a service vendor, and legal and contractual issues (e.g. if equipment is covered by a VPF agreement, or if a warranty repair is needed, servicing generally has to be done by a tech employed by a manufacturer-approved company) are all factors. I'm happy to support customers who want to buy parts and consumables from us and use them to do their own maintenance and repairs, within sensible limits and the mutual understanding that we're not responsible for the consequences of errors and misunderstandings made by the end user in attempting to do maintenance and/or repairs. But there are others who just want the thing fixed, and don't want to get involved in any of details: all they want to know is how long and how much.

[Adrian Avram]

[QUOTE=Andrew Thomas;n16194]The AC side of the PSU is the side that is messed up. It isn't outputting correctly to the 24v and 12v cards based on multimeter readings after I took the housing off an checked the internal connections. And I can verify that the franken-PSU is outputting correct from those 24v and 12v cards prior to connecting.

A good X7 PS will do nothing just plugged into the mains. It is configured in Optional Logic 1 mode on J2 connector (Global Inhibit pin 2-5 mA= PS ON/ 0V or floating=PS OFF) - so no 24 and 12V on the output.
In order to start outside the projector a Christie X7 PS, you need to jump pins 8 and 1 and via a 800 -to 1 K ohms, pins 7 and 2
The other two signals, AC OK and DC OK are also configured on Optional logic 1.
The PIB is supplying the 2 to 5 mA to get it ON (see attached photo).
All the X7 I have fixed, had a blown stand-by switcher IC (depending on the luck, also can kill the driver IC, one or both power mofets, and sometimes the PFC controller chip).

You can see also the test jig I made in order to start and test the AD and DC OK signals (harness pinout as well).

[Andrew Thomas]

[QUOTE=Adrian Avram;n16223]

The AC side of the PSU is the side that is messed up. It isn't outputting correctly to the 24v and 12v cards based on multimeter readings after I took the housing off an checked the internal connections. And I can verify that the franken-PSU is outputting correct from those 24v and 12v cards prior to connecting.

A good X7 PS will do nothing just plugged into the mains. It is configured in Optional Logic 1 mode on J2 connector (Global Inhibit pin 2-5 mA= PS ON/ 0V or floating=PS OFF) - so no 24 and 12V on the output.
In order to start outside the projector a Christie X7 PS, you need to jump pins 8 and 1 and via a 800 -to 1 K ohms, pins 7 and 2
The other two signals, AC OK and DC OK are also configured on Optional logic 1.
The PIB is supplying the 2 to 5 mA to get it ON (see attached photo).
All the X7 I have fixed, had a blown stand-by switcher IC (depending on the luck, also can kill the driver IC, one or both power mofets, and sometimes the PFC controller chip).

You can see also the test jig I made in order to start and test the AD and DC OK signals (harness pinout as well).

Very helpful!

[Adrian Avram]

Attached better resolution pictures with the test jig, and the correct voltages on AC and DC OK signals, that PIB needs to see.

[Andrew Thomas]

This is what makes Film-tech's forum such a marvelous resource!

[Andrew Thomas]

Attached better resolution pictures with the test jig, and the correct voltages on AC and DC OK signals, that PIB needs to see.

Finally got around the working on this again. I swapped the AC side of the used X7 into the X7 that shipped with the projector. I’m getting good 12v now, but when you turn the projector from STANDBY to ON, I’m getting low voltage on the 24v (around 1.5v)

If I disconnect the 24v out lines to the projector, I do get solid 24v out of that 2P module. Any thoughts on where to look next?

[Marcel Birgelen]

That would indicate some kind of extreme load (or effectively a short circuit) or a defective PSU:

- Have you measured the resistance over the 24V bus? If it's low or effectively zero, there definitely is some kind of short in that circuit.
- Have you tried to put some other load on the 24v out to see if the PSU is good?

[Adrian Avram]

Agreed with Marcel regarding the 24V bus. According to the diagrams, the 24V bus is only used by 3 (or 4) modules.
No. 1 - 24V goes to PIB, via the J7/P7 connector on the Backplane board
No. 2 - 24V goes to EVB board on J32/P32 connector. Here EVB passes the 24V bus to the IMCB1 board (lamp adjust board) on J34?P34A
Depending on the setup 24V can also go the Lens adjust board (IMCB2) via J34/P34B

In order to rule out the PS being at fault (after making sure the replacement X7 AC module internal jumpers are set up identically, as in the original AC module), I would start it in the projector, with the 24V harness disconnected and a load placed instead, any 24V bulb that can draw 1 - 2 amps, and a voltmeter across.
If it passes, chech for shortcircuit on the EVB (I had one case, where the EVB had a shorted MLCC capacitor on the 24V line), and IMCB board/s.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

Parts are hard to get because of the chip shortage, I doubt they are stuck on ships, most of that sort of stuff gods by air freight. I needed a formatter board for an NC-2000 in Utah and delivery time was 30 days. So the Tech in Utah got one out of a spare engine to get tje pix back to normal.

[Gordon McLeod]

Parts are hard to get because of the chip shortage, I doubt they are stuck on ships, most of that sort of stuff gods by air freight. I needed a formatter board for an NC-2000 in Utah and delivery time was 30 days. So the Tech in Utah got one out of a spare engine to get tje pix back to normal.

Mark a NEC failure the world is ending

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

Mark a NEC failure the world is ending

I had one other in Elko, NV in a brand new projector. Turned out the formatter was not properly torqued down on that one.

[Tony Bandiera Jr]

Finally got around the working on this again. I swapped the AC side of the used X7 into the X7 that shipped with the projector. I’m getting good 12v now, but when you turn the projector from STANDBY to ON, I’m getting low voltage on the 24v (around 1.5v)

If I disconnect the 24v out lines to the projector, I do get solid 24v out of that 2P module. Any thoughts on where to look next?

Marcel and Adrian offer up some good suggestions.

As I had said before, the symptoms indicated something worse that a normal PSU failure, and you had a good idea to swap out the PSU parts, but without digging deeper FIRST, you now find out there are other issues.

I am not trying to pick on you here, and of course over my 30 plus years as a tech I've missed some marks several times, but troubleshooting 101 states that in the event of things like a blown fuse, tripped breaker or a power supply fault like you had happen, BEFORE you simply replace a fuse, reset a breaker, or in this case, replace a power supply, you do some simple tests on what is downstream to find the root cause.

As for Christie tech support, my past experiences with them on some very odd problems with some CP2220's were very positive, with quick solutions found by them. Of course, things have changed over time and it is kinda disappointing to hear that your experiences with them have not worked out so good.

I hope the suggestions help you find the problem, (I'm betting on the EVB capacitor that Adrian mentioned....) and you can report back with the good news that it is fixed.