Warp on dual DCI projectors

[Jesper Meng]

First, Merry Christmas to everybody :-)

I need to converge two projectors for more light output. I have two Barco DP4K32B's. I have heard that XDC(?) makes a dual server system where at least one projector is warped. Does anyone want to share some info? Software? Issues? Can i input via SDI or HDMI? Camera alignment?
Other systems capable of warping?

You can PM me on Facebook.com/rejsebio if you don't want it public

[Carsten Kurz]

Many DCI projectors nowadays support Warping - but, not using standard tools. Usually you had to buy special software packages to enable it, or, it is only possible with special servers/IMS. I don't think you can just activate it on a plain-vanilla DCI projector or server.

[Marcel Birgelen]

Christie introduced Christie Duo a few years ago, which converged two of their projectors, using an external camera. AFAIK they don't do any warping on that system and it supported only their own IMSes, which have since been discontinued.

Sony used to have an officially supported stacking solution and they also didn't warp the image itself. Warping the image is still a bit problematic, because in DCI, touching image content needs to be done inside the secured media itself or very close to the "edge", as you can't do any warping on encrypted content.

Is there any reason you need two projectors? There isn't a current laser solution out there that could do the trick with a single projector?

[Steve Guttag]

Christie's CineLife + can do warping with their "Mystique" technology. The big clue is their new electronic convergence. They are using it to warp color by color across the image to get corner-to-corner convergence (demonstrated at CinemaCon 2021). However, the same technology could warp the entire image.

[Jesper Meng]

"Many DCI projectors nowadays support Warping - but, not using standard tools. Usually you had to buy special software packages to enable it, or, it is only possible with special servers/IMS. I don't think you can just activate it on a plain-vanilla DCI projector or server."
@Carsten
As i have a lot of Barco lenses and projectors, i am not very likely to shift brand. I have Barco ICMP and IMS2000/3000 servers, none of them warp. But which servers do?


"Is there any reason you need two projectors? There isn't a current laser solution out there that could do the trick with a single projector?"
@Marcel
The customer demands two converged projectors. Sadly enough. I am considering new lasers, but i still need a way to warp them. I would prefer to buy dci projectors, if it is possible at all.

Christie's CineLife + can do warping with their "Mystique" technology. The big clue is their new electronic convergence. They are using it to warp color by color across the image to get corner-to-corner convergence (demonstrated at CinemaCon 2021). However, the same technology could warp the entire image.
@Steve
The warping is done in the projector, isn't it? Or in a Pandora server?

[Steve Guttag]

In the projector. The only reason for dual projectors would be for 3D without field sequential images, or incredibly large pictures. I believe the top size of the Christie projectors is on the order of 50K lumens or nearly double the largest xenon projector. That projector requires an external chiller.

[Marcel Birgelen]

Are you referring to Christie's "Pandora's Box"? That's a non-DCI compliant solution. If you don't need DCI compliance, there are many solutions out there that can use big-venue and regular non-DCI projectors that can do projection mapping in all forms and sizes.

Christie's CineLife+ projectors replace the traditional ICP with something of their own design, that does allow some image warping as part of the image settings. You can create a "warp file" that allows you to adjust the screen geometry. The problem here though is that there is zero automation, so every time your alignment drifts, you'll need to re-calibrate the setup.

If you simply need a VERY BIG 2D IMAGE, like Steve indicated, there are good single-projector solutions that are both DCI-compliant and don't come with the added complexity of converging two images exactly over each other. A single-projector solution will deliver far better contrast. Also, images will be sharper, because no matter how much time you put into your calibration, it will never be perfect.

[Jesper Meng]

I have tried to find what i can about Christie's Pandoras box, and it looks about right. I seems that the Mystique software can do warping on both the projectors and Pandora and even the newest cinema projectors. So it is possible to warp for non DCI but not for DCP's unless it is a Christie...

I do a lot of shows with dcp's but also some non-dcp shows with a lot of ambient light. I would love to do it with a hot spare with plenty of light instead, but i do not decide on that.

[Andrew Thomas]

Barco has a 40,000 lumen laser upgrade for the 32Bs. That may be the simplest solution if that provides enough light for your application. Pricing seems to be under $1/lumen for their laser conversion kits across the lineup.

[Jesper Meng]

That does not give me warp... But agreed, great update :-)

[Carsten Kurz]

A universal warping option is different from the somewhat simpler dual projector convergence. At least for their series 2 DCI systems, Christie sold their 'Duo' package.
https://www.christiedigital.com/glob...chure-2013.pdf
As far as I know, Duo only works with Christies ill-fated IMB-S2. The latest Cinelife Electronics may offer the same functionality.

Not sure wether Barco had something similiar within their Barco Escape setups. You will probably have to talk to Barco directly to find out what is possible.

[Marcel Birgelen]

A universal warping option is different from the somewhat simpler dual projector convergence. At least for their series 2 DCI systems, Christie sold their 'Duo' package.
https://www.christiedigital.com/glob...chure-2013.pdf
As far as I know, Duo only works with Christies ill-fated IMB-S2. The latest Cinelife Electronics may offer the same functionality.

Not sure wether Barco had something similiar within their Barco Escape setups. You will probably have to talk to Barco directly to find out what is possible.

The automation in the "Duo" setup requires the IMB-S2 and was far from perfect. In order to get near-pixel-perfect alignment across the image, you'll always need some advanced warping support.

Escape has always used three separate screens and three separate projectors, two of which located inside the theater opposite of the screen, so no need to do any warping there.

Maybe the new Barco ICP-D does have some warping support, for which the software hasn't been released yet.

Christie is pretty vague of how Mistique integrates with their CineLife+ DCI projectors, but if this works, it may be the only option if you want some "automatic convergence" in combination with a modern DCI machine, which in my opinion, is an absolute must.

All other solutions are proprietary for their individual setups: Christie's Dolby Vision projector, which eventually evolved into the Eclipse projector and IMAX's dual projector setup are both not available for resale, but they all use automatic convergence via a camera system.

[Steve Guttag]

Barco has a 40,000 lumen laser upgrade for the 32Bs. That may be the simplest solution if that provides enough light for your application. Pricing seems to be under $1/lumen for their laser conversion kits across the lineup.

Barco, at this time, does not offer warping on any of their DCI projectors. The LLU (Laser Light Upgrades) are an LP (Laser Phosphor) that could have an entirely different discussion as to their performance and cost-effectiveness but would take this thread drastically off topic for no benefit. Barco has RGB DCI laser projectors going up to 52,000 lumens too...again, no warping.

Maybe the new Barco ICP-D does have some warping support, for which the software hasn't been released yet.

Whereas the ICP-D/ICMP-X are not even offering simple anamorphic support, I highly doubt that either have warping, something that would require much more processing (and since the ICP-D/ICMP-X can scale, anamorphic should be a piece of cake...in fact, I wonder if I could do it without anamorphic factor...something to experiment with, next time! But still, no warping.

[Marcel Birgelen]

Whereas the ICP-D/ICMP-X are not even offering simple anamorphic support, I highly doubt that either have warping, something that would require much more processing (and since the ICP-D/ICMP-X can scale, anamorphic should be a piece of cake...in fact, I wonder if I could do it without anamorphic factor...something to experiment with, next time! But still, no warping.

I guess that stretching will not consume more resources than proportional scaling the image, actually the opposite if you stretch it only across a single axis. So, I'm pretty sure the missing anamorphics functionality is just an omission in software, rather than a hardware limitations.

Image warping is another beast entirely, especially if you allow for more than a few linear trapezoid corrections, yet any cheap graphical card nowadays can do such things at 4K resolution. But given the price of those interface cards, is it wrong to expect them to at least put on some kind of modern GPU architecture or at least a sufficiently sized FPGA to allow for some image manipulation? It probably is... I guess Christie has an advantage here that they've made themselves a name in the projection mapping industry and therefore are able to leverage the technology they built for that in their DCI projectors, at least to some extend.

[Steve Guttag]

I have asked for the Anamorphic Factor to work for years now (on the first ICMP that I encountered). It wasn't an omission. There is a philosophical difference behind it. It's kinda like needing xenon light sources for a client that desires/needs them, Barco will just be summarily excluded from the candidate list like any other product that doesn't meet the client's requirements. It is no different than omitting a multi-channel analog input on sound processors, if the project needs that feature, the CP850 and now the CP950 are excluded from the candidate list.