Batman Light Levels

[Jon Dent]

So he was doing the audio engineer's version of the 'walk of shame'?

[Sascha Roll]

I'd say that 90% of all threatres that are "tuned" to 85dbc at Fader 7 are misaligned. If you don't have a real fullrange speaker (Front channels ALL the way down!) that has first been setup for a nice and somewhat linear response this will massively influence your SPL reading. Having - what seems to be common at least around here - insufficient LF Power, especially in the Front speakers, will just lead to installers "tuning" the room to 85dbc without realizing that theyre missing the bottom end which is somewhat unfortunate when measuring "c" rated SPL levels. In my experience those rooms calibrated by so-called experts are Usually 3-4 dB too loud, which is more than one "step" on the relatige Dolby fader.

[Marco Giustini]

Some movies are unbearable at 7.0 - even at 6.0. Regardless of the auditorium. I do not question that.

What I question is:

no one in their right mind could tolerate that in most features

I feel the opposite, most features sound fine at 7.0. Some won't of course. But between 6 to 7 is ok for the vast majority of features (in a proper room).

I also do not disagree that someone may simply find that too loud. It's subjective. Like room temperature.

Sascha point is also good. But I would not consider a room where the LF is SO inadequate to not be able to cover the basic spectrum required by today's soundtracks as "proper room". But yes, dBC is a reference. One should also look at the frequency response graph and the dBA number as well.

Then you have misaligned testing equipment as well coming into the equation

But we digress. The OP was about light level. Thankfully nobody ever questioned that - I would only add the word "average" on that to make it more meaningful.

[Mike Blakesley]

We've had the loudness debate before. I can confirm that it's possible for a movie to be "too loud" in the Dolby screening room. I saw one of the Transformers movies in there, and while the sound was obviously very impressive, clear, bombastic, or what-have-you....I still didn't like the overwhelming loudness of it. Another guy might have thought it sounded fine, but I didn't like it that loud. Even at a rock concert there are usually quiet moments, but that movie didn't seem to have any, or not many.

In my own theater, it's a similar situation....7 sounds good and impressive, but it's still too loud for my taste. So I adjust each movie until the dialogue sounds right to me, and the rest falls into place. Usually that setting is somewhere between 5.5 and 6.0. Since I'm getting older and I worry that my own hearing might be dimming a little, I often ask another trusted person if it sounds OK to them as well.

[Marco Giustini]

Transformers is probably not the right example as, as you say, it sounds great but you can’t have hours of 100dB+ Without a break!

[Jon Dent]

Just tested a fifteen minute chunk of Batman and they aren't kidding on light levels. This is one DARK movie

[Steve Guttag]

They might as well say...this movie can't be played on silver screens or with any S2K xenon or HMI projectors. Silver screens will preclude having enough light anywhere but in the middle and S2K projectors don't have the contrast to render the darks. Some laser projectors are claiming 2000:1+ contrast ratios but most are down in the the 1650:1 and rely on gain screens to make them acceptable...which puts them in the same predicament as silver screens.

That said, if your system meets SMPTE specs, one should be good to go.

[Carsten Kurz]

Yup. I watched some 20minutes of 'The Batman' today and, without having read this thread before, noticed it being very dull and dark. There may not be a single daylit scene in the entire movie.
I understand why the studio wants to make sure that light levels at least meet spec.

[Darin Steffl]

Did anyone else have a very slow night for this movie? We had 24 people total for our 3:15 and 7pm movie on opening night. I expected 20 at the first show and probably 100+ at the 7pm and it was dead. Nothing major going on in town. Almost every other new release we've shown since Godzilla has done better on opening night.

Is the movie theme too "dark feeling" for people to be interested?

[James Wyrembelski]

We had about 60ish for our one show at 7.

I don't typically do previews but we did do that last night and ended up with a whopping 14.

This film is tracking here at about the same rate as Uncharted did. While 60 isnt an awful number here on an opening title, it is for a larger one like the Bat.

Others Ive asked tonight said business is good but a little tepid for a title like this.

This is a good 2 week film here, not 3.

This is also why I'm glad I opened my grosses on Comscore. Sometimes you get titles that give you a heart attack on opening night. You then look to see everyone else is in the same boat and you don't feel so bad anymore

[Buck Wilson]

Some laser projectors are claiming 2000:1+ contrast ratios but most are down in the the 1650:1 and rely on gain screens to make them acceptable...which puts them in the same predicament as silver screens.

Wow I was under the impression that laser was really good with contrast. Ya learn things every day.

Business has been surprisingly slow here as well. We're only marginally beating last Friday's business. No Batman showtime has sold much more than 1/3 of it's capacity, but we also have it on half of our screens.

[Jon Dent]

We had a decent crowd. We're showing it on both screens and we would've sold out for sure if we'd only had it on one.

[Steve Guttag]

Wow I was under the impression that laser was really good with contrast. Ya learn things every day.

Laser can improve the contrast ratio but it isn't a guarantee. One really handicaps themselves with the .69" imagers (S2K). And, if you are using laser phosphor, particularly double blue lasers, the color is worse and only sort of DCI compliant.

I'm going to use NEC...not to pick on them but because they have a mix of Xenon and Laser Phosphor and they have banked on Laser Phosphor as THE form of laser to use. I'm using THEIR numbers as they advertise...so presume an optimistic number that could probably be demonstrated in the right conditions with the right lens and "typical" will probably be somewhat less.

In the S2K class, they don't have a Xenon, but they still have the NC1000, which is a lamp-based projector (HMI): 1600:1
NC1202L/NC1402L: 1600:1

For the "C" or .98" imagers we have:
NC1200C/NC2000C (Xenon): 2200:1
NC1802ML (LP): 2000:
NC1843ML (4K LP): 2000:1

For the B or 1.2" 2K/1.38" 4K)
NC3200S (2K Xenon): 2200:1
NC3240S (4K Xenon): 2000:1
NC2041L/NC3541L (4K RBB LP): 2000:1

There are many things that go into contrast ratio and other manufactures have shown a boost in using laser (which I have not verified). In general, I've noted a contrast bump using the RGB type laser projectors but have also noted the color doesn't look right either. NEC (and I think, still Christie) have Irises that can be put in the light path of their xenons (perhaps that is where NEC is getting their 2200:1 for their 2K xenon)...Christie had a set of irises that can bump contrast ratio. Additionally, Barco and Christie have High contrast lens offerings that can bump the contrast ratio 30% or more (at the cost of 30-50% of one's light, typically). Both Barco and Christie have high contrast 5000-6000:1 offerings. But again, one is doing so at the sacrifice of light output for the better, overall, picture.

For the most part, I have not been a fan of how "laser" has been sold to exhibitors as if it is a clear-cut better method than xenon. It isn't. Like all technologies, they all have their ups and downs. On balance, I think the Barco SP4K series of RGB lasers is a bit of a game changer though. They are cheaper than their 4K xenon counterparts. They cost less on day-1. Their electric is ⅓. The HVAC costs due to their lower BTU and no need for external exhaust just really slants the economics in their favor. Then look at the service side...their lasers are on plates so one is not having to change the whole light source if something breaks or decays to unusable. There aren't any expensive phosphor wheels to replace either. Oh, and they are 2300:1 contrast ratio (on the "C" series) out of the box, 3000:1 with High Contrast lenses. That is what moved me to them from xenon (before they discontinued their xenon machines). I still like the look of xenon better though. Christie's RGB lasers are right up there too. I'm wondering when NEC will jump into RGB laser with both feet. They've dabbled in it and, clearly, their LP stuff does not have great contrast ratio.

[Rusty Gordon]

When I worked for AMC we had a district manager who I was told was once an ace fighter pilot. Needless to say he was a little hard of hearing. Whenever he came on the property we were told to "raise the volume" despite patron complaints. The policy was, "If no one is coming to the lobby to complain it's too loud, then the volume isn't loud enough!"

[Mike Blakesley]

I had a similar conversation with an older theater owner friend of mine. He said he figured if he didn't get a complaint now and then, it wasn't quite loud enough.

We generally never get sound complaints but I attribute it more to the fact we're a small town and everybody knows and expects what our sound is going to be like. Occasionally after action movies I hear "Wow, that was loud!" usually with a smile on their face.

We've had a few walkouts on the Batmovie. It starts sounding and acting like it's about over when there's still about 10 minutes left and that usually triggers a small exodus. I haven't heard any comments about how dark it is, mostly just complaints about it being too freaking long.