Relays Have Ratings

[Bruce Cloutier]

60 years ago my father had an 8mm camera with him when he and his brother (my uncle for those of you keeping score) were ice fishing up in northern NH someplace. Even then there were size requirements for keeping a fish. So there is B&W footage of my uncle standing by a hole in the ice and tossing a good size trout back in. Well, they figured out how to play the movie footage backwards. I am guessing by loading the reel backwards. They played that repeatedly for my then 80 year old grandfather (who only spoke Canadian French). Well, he was old, maybe 80. I was was real little so I got a kick out of this too. Anyway... You can guess. They showed my uncle turning to the hole, reaching out and the fish simply jumped into his hand. The fishing that day was just that simple. My grandfather protested. I don't know what he said. It was probably colorful.

So running video backwards... old tech. Maybe you can go back to your Beatles albums and play it backwards. What was that? The White Album? Paul wasn't dead after all.

Ahh... the good ole' days.


BTW - on topic - We informed the customer in France that the damaged unit was not covered under warranty. He asked (jokingly I hope) for a repair estimate. ;-)

[Marcel Birgelen]

So running video backwards... old tech. Maybe you can go back to your Beatles albums and play it backwards. What was that? The White Album? Paul wasn't dead after all.

May I kindly ask what Paul you're referring to? :P
Because if it's that Paul, he isn't dead yet, at least not in my universe and while I'm writing this.

B.T.W., there is that movie, where that John also never died.

Somewhat back on topic: Those Chinese knock-offs aren't good enough for the real product? :P

[Bruce Cloutier]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_is_dead

I like the video where the Bills won all 4 Superbowls... but let's not digress. ;-)

What Chinese knock-offs? Isn't everything a Chinese knock-off? And, guess who has been paying those tariffs. Hint... not the Chinese. I really wouldn't want to dig the hole we are in any deeper.

Honestly, If I had the facilities we'd be producing our own components. You all are dependent on us and we depend on others who, apparently, are incompetent and really don't care. I can't get anymore DIY. So... is there a solution?

[Marcel Birgelen]

I put in a link to an eBay auction selling Chinese knock-offs of the LM2675MX-5.0. Yeah, they might be a bit pricey at low volumes, but if they work and are reliable, why not ask what they want for them in bulk... Yeah, those import taxes your former grandmaster put on everything Chinese... great idea, but let's not go there...

It would be cool if you could make your own integrated circuits, but besides all the legal issues, have you ever witnessed the process of creating an integrated circuit from wafer prep, the full lito process and packaging? It's not something I've lying around in my garden shed. It's a bit more complex than DIY-ing your own circuit boards and even that process can become quite finicky if you go beyond a single layer.

[Harold Hallikainen]

There's a high school student (now college student) who has been making his own integrated circuits. http://sam.zeloof.xyz/first-ic/ Pretty amazing.

[Bruce Cloutier]

So I do have experience with wafers. It doesn't require the best of environmental controls but if you want the yield and you can't stand the idea that a transistor junction here or there might be slightly compromised... well then you can't have even the slightest particulate matter in the air. And forget about any uncontrolled variation in temperature and humidity. You cannot get to everything to test everything. Even if you could how could you do it? They do test in place on the wafer and x-out the bad parts. Those are sorted into recycling after they are cut and before packaging.

Still it is achievable. There are IDEs for designing silicon. There are actually libraries of components that are now public domain like versions of the 8051 processors.

I've bought entire wafers and had material lapped from the back to make them thinner. I've then glued those parts to thin flexible printed circuit boards and wire bonded connections. This then went into things like credit cards where the entire circuit ends up being only 1/3 the thickness of those cards in your wallet.

Still you shouldn't have to do this yourself. So patents and copyright work to protect the component manufacturer. A company like Texas Instruments designs a very useful component and makes it into a staple in every electronics device. Every electronics manufacturer relies on that supply. And what protects us? What prevents TI from withdrawing the supply? They're like pushers and we are all addicts. Who is to say that the absence of these parts is really COVID related? They throw up a smoke screen of excuses that all seem reasonable given the pandemic but... Prices go up and they benefit. They create a catastrophe in the industry that maybe a politician of their selection might one day miraculously resolve? I don't know but it is sure hard to avoid thinking I am a fool. And... lets not get into politics... or even common sense.

Again, I will stress... It is just my opinion. I could be wrong.

(Is that line trademarked? Probably. It is used here without permission.)

[Gordon McLeod]

TI as is Analogue Devices with the SSM line are notorious for just dropping a long used product. TI droped the TL185 solid state switch that was used in lots of analogue audio equipment causing lots of head aches

[Marcel Birgelen]

So I do have experience with wafers. It doesn't require the best of environmental controls but if you want the yield and you can't stand the idea that a transistor junction here or there might be slightly compromised... well then you can't have even the slightest particulate matter in the air. And forget about any uncontrolled variation in temperature and humidity. You cannot get to everything to test everything. Even if you could how could you do it? They do test in place on the wafer and x-out the bad parts. Those are sorted into recycling after they are cut and before packaging.

Still it is achievable. There are IDEs for designing silicon. There are actually libraries of components that are now public domain like versions of the 8051 processors.

I've bought entire wafers and had material lapped from the back to make them thinner. I've then glued those parts to thin flexible printed circuit boards and wire bonded connections. This then went into things like credit cards where the entire circuit ends up being only 1/3 the thickness of those cards in your wallet.Still it is achievable. There are IDEs for designing silicon. There are actually libraries of components that are now public domain like versions of the 8051 processors.

I've bought entire wafers and had material lapped from the back to make them thinner. I've then glued those parts to thin flexible printed circuit boards and wire bonded connections. This then went into things like credit cards where the entire circuit ends up being only 1/3 the thickness of those cards in your wallet.

A lot of the simpler components don't need the latest EUV wafer steppers and whatnot, but still, given what this equipment costs to procure, maintain and operate, I'd say that producing your own integrated circuits is only viable if you're able to put in some serious volume.

The next problem is that you can't just replace all components on your board with your own version, as the designs of most of these are closed. While you probably could reverse-engineer a lot of them, how much effort do you want to put into that? Maybe there are open designs available for replacement components, but they will hardly ever be drop-in replacements and will probably require a significant redesign of your own products.

I guess the fact that most semi-conductor companies are "fabless" is a clear indication that running your own IC production isn't for the faint of hearth. I guess that's also a part of the problem, given the fact that there aren't all that many players out there that are capable of producting ICs in quantity, everybody is dependent on them. But governments are currently pouring in billions into incentives for those who invest into IC production capacity, so maybe you can make it happen via that route.

Still you shouldn't have to do this yourself. So patents and copyright work to protect the component manufacturer. A company like Texas Instruments designs a very useful component and makes it into a staple in every electronics device. Every electronics manufacturer relies on that supply. And what protects us? What prevents TI from withdrawing the supply? They're like pushers and we are all addicts. Who is to say that the absence of these parts is really COVID related? They throw up a smoke screen of excuses that all seem reasonable given the pandemic but... Prices go up and they benefit. They create a catastrophe in the industry that maybe a politician of their selection might one day miraculously resolve? I don't know but it is sure hard to avoid thinking I am a fool. And... lets not get into politics... or even common sense.

It's striking how the capacity problem is more prevalent with older generations of ICs than with newer generations. I guess that's clear that those fabs are currently primarily used for the later generation ICs, as their margins on those will most likely much better.

I've proposed this here before... There really should be something like a law that requires companies to open up their designs and provide free licensing for any product they abandon, like a very extended version of the "right to repair" stuff going on right now. But besides political difficulties to ever get such a law to pass, companies will do their part to frustrate the execution. Because what defines if a product is abandoned? They could pull something off like producing an absolute minimum of every product, much like airlines that kept empty planes flying from several airports, just to keep their precious slots, or in VPF times, where some cinemas would opt to run a movie even if zero tickets were sold to a particular show...

[Bruce Cloutier]

Our tendency to adopt the more complex and not try to keep things simple may be the death of us perhaps in the long run. Film was simpler wasn't it? The Internet will not last forever.

Um, even relays don't last forever although their end can definitely be hastened. (to the topic)

[Harold Hallikainen]

On semiconductors going end of life, Rochester Electronics licenses the original design and continues manufacturing when the original manufacturer quits. https://www.rocelec.com/manufacturers/rei . I suspect these are mostly parts that are used in very high dollar products like military, aerospace, etc. But, some parts are being maintained after the original manufacturer discontinues them.

Harold

[Randy Stankey]

Our tendency to adopt the more complex and not try to keep things simple may be the death of us perhaps in the long run.

More to the heart of things, it's layering complex concept on top of other complex concepts that brings problems.

In cars, electronic ignitions are better than distributors. Electronic fuel injection is better than a carburetor. Computerized emission control is even better. On-board diagnostics can make it easier than ever to diagnose problems but do we really need to be able to connect to our car's engine control computer with Wi-Fi?

I have seen demonstrations, online, where hackers were able to completely take over a car's controls through its Wi-Fi network. They were able to cause the power windows to roll up and the doors to lock, then they were disabled. The brakes could be disabled and the engine commanded to accelerate at top speed.

What a great way to assassinate somebody but leave no traces!

Car manufacturers claim that these vulnerabilities have been fixed but we all know the one-upsmanship that occurs with technology like this. First, a hack is discovered. Next, a patch is made but, soon, another hole is found. The whole thing goes round and round in a never ending dance of hacking and patching.

The Israeli Government (and others) hacked into Iraq's nuclear processing facility which was supposed to have been "air gapped" so that no outside attacks could occur, yet it happened.

What's it going to take for people to understand that technology may be good but, if not used responsibly and carefully, can also be very, very dangerous!

Will the President's limo have to crash into a cement barricade at 100 MPH before people get the message?

I was, once, in charge of a show on the stage at Mercyhurst where a guy wanted to "automate" the fly system by attaching a capstan winch to the counterweight arbor then overweight the lineset. Then, he would attach a DMX controller to the winch motor and control it from the stage lighting console.

I was like, "Nuh, uh!"

When he asked why, I replied:
What happens if somebody bumps a control on the console?
What happens if your DMX controller glitches?
What happens if the winch barfs? The winch cable breaks?
Any one of a hundred unforeseen problems?

I'll tell you what'll happen! 1,000 lbs. of lighting, scenery and hardware will come crashing down to the stage and clobber anybody who happens to be in harm's way! It would, probably, be dark and nobody would even know what happened until it was too late. What's worse, there would be no way for a human to step in and disable the winch, even if you could shut off the power with an E-stop button.

To this day, the guy probably still thinks I was being an asshole for not letting him play with my stage gear.

[Harold Hallikainen]

I think the car hack was done through the audio system which, apparently was also on the CAN bus that ran the rest of the car. On DMX, since there is no error detection (at least when I worked on DMX 20 years ago), it was not to be used for dangerous stuff like pyrotechnics.

[Randy Stankey]

DMX also doesn't like loops and branches in its wiring topology. Straight line from A to B to C.
If you need to split a DMX line, you need a DMX hub.

Our stage light control had a dual universe setup. We used Universe-1 for regular lights on dimmers and Universe-2 for everything else like movers or foggers.
Of course, you need to run two sets of cables but it obviates the need for a DMX hub and prevents glitches in communication. The dimmers were in the electrical vault, down in the basement. They were hard-wired to a port on the wall at the FOH console. If we had moving lights, foggers or other things to control, they were on a second universe where we could just use cables and plug them into the second port on the lighting board.

If we did pyro, it would be on a separate system, completely. We never did anything more than one or two shots. Push the button and something goes "Poof!"
The something that goes "Poof" was usually a half-teaspoon of Pyrodex and a pinch of powedered magnesium in an empty tuna fish can with a piece of flash paper as a cover and a piece of Nichrome wire to ignite it. I made a control box that used a car battery for power and there were banana plugs that could be used as "keys" to prevent accidental discharges. Pulling out the key physically disconnected both legs of the pyro's power line from the source.

I would never, never allow a computer to have the ability to set off a pyro charge. There needs to be a way for a human to disable the system and intervene at any moment. Ceding control to a computer often removes that ability unless you buy specially designed equipment...very expensive equipment!

With cars, how many "Zero-Day" vulnerabilities are out there which are either so far undiscovered or that are known by some nefarious individual(s)?
What if some "foreign entity" knows of a hack and is keeping it secret so that they can use it at a time of their own choosing?

I'm not suggesting that there are such vulnerabilities and I hope that there never will be but, with complex technology piled on top of complex technology, there are so many places for things to go wrong that we might never know until it's too late.

Who would have guessed that it would be possible to hack into a car's stereo system and connect to the CAN bus to commandeer the engine control?
But it is complex technology, piled on top of complex technology that even allowed it to happen in the first place.

There is this weird, human desire to be "Master of Everything" as if they were Captain Kirk, sitting on the bridge of the Enterprise.
Yeah, it would be great to be able to say "Warp Ten, Mr. Sulu" and fly off to some distant planet but, in reality, putting that kind of control in the hands of one person with that much layered technology, is just a recipe for disaster.

That's why I split my DMX into two universes. That's why I put my pyro on a separate control. That's why I always have a way to disable a system and let a human step in when needed.

That's also why my car doesn't have a Wi-Fi connected stereo and only has a "Plane Jane" Radio/CD player.

[Harold Hallikainen]

Here's a story about the car hack:

https://www.claimsjournal.com/news/n.../27/264766.htm

[Randy Stankey]

"...if someone were to hack their car, it’d be against the law..."

That gave me a laugh!

If a nefarious individual intended to hack into somebody's car in order to kill somebody or to simply commit a terrorist act, the law would likely be the last thing on their mind.

Further, how is anybody going to be able to figure out who did it? Said nefarious individual could literally be a mile away from the scene of the crime as they are doing it and would be long gone before anybody even had a clue about what happened or how it was done.

I make no claims to the effect that the sky is falling but, no matter how car companies try to minimize and whitewash things, this IS a serious problem that needs to be addressed NOW!