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Looking to reopen a classic theater that has been closed for many year, and seeking advice on a projector. Since we don't really know if this will be a success or flop, trying to keep costs down. I have read through the forums here about the digital projectors, and was wondering whether anyone would suggest using a series 1 projector anymore, and if so, which of the old series 1 projectors would be the best bet?
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Keeping costs down and opening a theatre may be mutually exclusive concepts.
Don't forget that your customers will have certain expectations when they walk in the door, and if you can't meet them you probably won't see them again.
Movie theatres have a magical atmosphere that you don't find anywhere else and that's a big part of what you sell, but you also need to provide a good product and that includes everything from telling the kids to sit down and shut up to having a good picture on the screen. If any of these things are missing, that won't lead to success. -
I would strongly suggest staying away from ANY Series 1 equipment, regardless of price. (Unless you are a technician and doing it for fun.) Support for most is non existent, security standards have changed so some mainstream content may not be playable. Even if it works at time of purchase, with its age, how can you know when it suffer a non-repairable breakdown?
There is a fair amount of good, used Series 2 Xenon available at reasonable cost, check the Equipment for Sale here on FT. There are also other vendors that you can easily locate with a search engine query. Most S2 equipment has support available for at least a few years longer.
If you can wait a bit, as per another thread on here one of the big chains is about to do a mass conversion to laser projectors, so I think a glut of S2 machines will suddenly hit the market and (hopefully) drive the prices down to new low.
You will need to do home work on the specs of your theatre, specifically throw distance and dimensions of masked image sizes, and make sure the projector you get will have the correct lens. Each manufacturer uses specific lenses so unlike film, you MUST get the correct lens type for the brand of projector.Comment
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Agreed completely with Tony. A significant quantity of early Series 2 equipment is coming onto the market thanks to the xenon to laser upgrade process, most of which is still fully supported by the manufacturer for parts availability, and for which most field techs now working are trained and current for servicing and repairs. This isn't a glut, because the big chains upgrading en masse are typically entering into deals with projector manufacturers that prevent them from simply putting the retired projectors on the used equipment market (because this would depress sales of new projectors), and allow them to use these machines as parts donors for others remaining in service only. But as smaller chains, indies, post houses, residence theaters, etc. upgrade, these retired Series 2 xenon projectors do end up on the used market, and it is a steady trickle.
I can't speak for Sony and Christie, because I only install and service Barco and NEC equipment (and very occasionally Christie, but not often enough to have a good knowledge of their parts situation), but the only parts you can now buy for their Series 1 projectors are those that are also used in Series 2 ones (e.g. some fans, and the Barco coolant pump).
As Tony points out, you will need to know the screen size and throw. That will determine both the model of lens and the size of lamp that will be needed. The power supply available in the booth is another consideration: depending on the lamp size, single phase 208 or 220 may be OK, but you might need three phase. If you are using a xenon arc lamp projector, your booth will almost certainly need a forced air extraction system, too.
Another consideration is the model of DCP server and media block that you will use. If you buy a used projector containing an Enigma link decrypter board, you can use an older server with an HD-SDI media block (e.g. Dolby DSS or Doremi DCP-2K4). If you buy a used projector with nothing in the option slot(s), you will either need a rack server with an IMB, or an IMS.
Another cost item to budget for is installation. If you are not able to do this yourself, you will likely need one to two days' labor from a manufacturer-trained tech to get this done.
I would suggest that your best bet is to gather this information, and then have a conversation with several cinema equipment dealerships, to see what they could offer you and at what price point. The one I work for can be contacted at sales {at} movingimagetech.com, and we would of course be happy to work with you; though I would encourage you to get in touch with some others as well.Comment
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Thanks for the info so far, we are still trying to figure out what the best direction is for everything. This would not be a theater for first run content, so we are debating the idea of whether to stay true to its vintage for now, and show some classic 35mm films, since all the 35mm equipment is still operational. I see some of the Sony projectors are available reasonably, what are peoples opinions about future support for Sony projectors now that they have exited the business?Comment
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I wouldn't touch a Sony projector. They are expensive to service and need it due to their imager. Sony will, likely, just have parts available for the period they defined when they canned the product line up. It wouldn't surprise me if they don't keep to that due to "supply chain issues" that may have forced an obsolescence earlier than they had planned.
I agree with others that you can likely snap up an S2 projector for a decent price when the big-boys do their laser conversion. There is nothing wrong with a xenon machine (and quite a bit right with them). If you go with an S2, you'll have server choices for the foreseeable future. What has people concerned about S1 machines isn't that they won't work...they actually are pretty good, all-in-all. However, you are perpetually one failure away from having to trash it or find a like projector to pick parts from. That is a bit of a risk.Comment
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Your challenge there will be getting hold of prints. There are essentially three sources of 35mm prints for theatrical exhibition these days:Originally posted by Chris Bangma- The studio archives
- Nonprofit archives (e.g. UCLA, AMPAS, George Eastman House, Library of Congress), plus the odd archive that is associated with a for profit company (e.g. AGFA)
- Private collectors
Arthouses and cinematheques that still play 35mm usually have at least one full time programmer, whose job it is to co-ordinate these print loans and rights clearances, plus a full scale team of old school projectionists. The barriers to entry for a new theater wanting to play surviving 35mm prints are very significant.Comment
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That’s what we are debating. Digital is much easier in some ways. I did talk to Criterion though, and will investigate what they have to offer.
what is everyone’s opinion on a series 2 projector that is the best bang for the buck?Comment
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If you do not have a technical support vendor in town and able to do service calls at relatively little notice, I would opt for Barco over NEC. In almost all breakdown scenarios, Series 2 Barcos are easier to fix than their NEC equivalents, and there is a greater chance that the fault could be fixed by an untrained, or minimally trained, end user, with remote phone/email/Teamviewer support from a tech. If you do have an authorized NEC service vendor in or close to your city, then I would be open to a good price on a used but OK NEC, too.
However, for this reason, used but OK Series 2 Barcos tend to fetch a higher price than their NEC equivalents.Comment
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334 NEC's and I can only think of four issues that I had that required me to go to the site for NEC issues. Many of the systems I installed came from MIT where Leo works. The majority of my repairs were sound system or normal service & updates.
1. Failure of early NC-1200 Xenon ballasts in two projectors.
2. Multiple failures of power switches in some early NC-2000's
3. Failure of two ICP's one of which was due to a nearby lightening strike at a drive in. One failed when I was changing the ICP clock battery. Also an early ICP.
4. Early NC-900 lamps pretty much all exploded. That was fixed by Ushio long ago.
5. One light engine change out due to damage from nearby demolition shock.
So, no complaints here, or from the places I installed them. Barco is quite a bit brighter. Christie would come in second and NEC last in this department. But as long as the projector and lamp is sized correctly to the screen size and gain, they work fine.Comment
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My 2 cents:- Try to find an integrator in your region with a good reputation and a bit of track record.
- Work something out with this integrator that works for both of you.
As indicated, there is plenty of series 2 equipment hitting the streets, so I really would stay away from series 1 equipment. Not only is this equipment, on average, much older, it's actually often harder to find replacement equipment.
Also, there is more to the table than just the projector and server. Stuff like sound and how to integrate an already existing sound system into your digital setup are also important.Comment
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Agreed completely, though I'm not sure what the availability of an integrator who does DCI equipment in or close to Grand Rapids is like. Just before the pandemic I was sent to a theater in Houghton, MI, to install an NC3240. We simply couldn't find anyone based closer to the site who could get there during the time window needed, and so the expense of sending me from California was unavoidable. This place really was up the ass of beyond: flew into Grand Rapids and then it was pretty much an entire day's driving to get there, much of it on twisty, single lane (in each direction) roads that made me think I was back in England!Comment
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I'm in Southeast MN and we used Bright Star local to us. They've been helpful and one of their techs lives 30 mins away. I don't know if they have anyone in Michigan but it doesn't hurt to ask. I know they travel all over and they were telling me about a client in Atlanta they do a lot of work for and you're much closer than that.
We are upgrading our NEC NC1200C (Series 2) to a laser projector soon so if you're serious about a good, used projector, private message me as we'll be ready to sell it soon. We just had a new lamp installed and our techs tell me the projector is in great condition compared to others they've serviced. Good luck!
https://www.bsscinema.com/Comment
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Hi Chris, my main gig these days is for Trinnov Audio and I live in England but I own a cinema company based in Grand Rapids, Michigan with 4 engineers. We service all the Celebration locations as well as the Wealthy, UICA, and many other cinemas in the area. Send me a private message if you want to know more. Not sure which cinema you are reopening but we may already know it. FYI we do not sell projectors but we work with all brands and several dealers including Leo's company MiT.Comment
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That's in the upper peninsula Leo. Minneapolis is a whole lot closer to Houghton than Grand Rapids is.Originally posted by Leo Enticknap View PostComment
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