No subtitles with Black Panther in ShowVault

[Marlon Martins]

Hi, me again with another weird problem

Black Panther (ENG with Portughese subtitles) for some reason, does not show subtitles (32B with ShowVault). Trailers show subtitles fine, The second screen that has an Alchemy, show fine. the files are the same. whe deleted the files, ingested again, the technician did a remote access, all options to show subtitles are fine. Other movies show subtitles fine, but not Black panter in this server only.

any guesses?

[Carsten Kurz]

Software versions on Doremi and Barco? I assume it is Black Panther 2: Wakanda Forever? This should be a SMPTE DCP.

[Leo Enticknap]

Agreed with Carsten that the most likely explanation is that the SV and IMB are on old software/firmware versions that cannot handle encrypted timed text in SMPTE DCPs. Troubleshooting step 1 should be to confirm that you have the current software (including hotfixes), firmware, and security manager versions, and that the projector is on the current software/firmware bundle (for a Barco 32B this is 2.10.117).

If that doesn't do the fix, are you rendering the subtitles in the server or the projector? If the projector is rendering subtitles, the SV/IMB includes the option of doing it in the server, if for whatever reason projector rendering isn't working. In the SV's web UI, go to Administration > Device Manager (this screenshot is from an IMS2000, but the SV is identical):

IMS2000_devicemanager.jpg

If, as in this screenshot, you do not see an entry called "SubtitleEngine" in the list of devices, you can add it by pushing new, selecting it from the dropdown, and then saving. Reboot the SV and projector, and see if that works.

[Marlon Martins]

Software versions on Doremi and Barco? I assume it is Black Panther 2: Wakanda Forever? This should be a SMPTE DCP.

Yes, it is Black Panther 2: Wakanda Forever. whe told the technician to do a "full update" on the Projector/SV to make sure this is not the problem. He is doing it soon

Agreed with Carsten that the most likely explanation is that the SV and IMB are on old software/firmware versions that cannot handle encrypted timed text in SMPTE DCPs. Troubleshooting step 1 should be to confirm that you have the current software (including hotfixes), firmware, and security manager versions, and that the projector is on the current software/firmware bundle (for a Barco 32B this is 2.10.117).

If that doesn't do the fix, are you rendering the subtitles in the server or the projector? If the projector is rendering subtitles, the SV/IMB includes the option of doing it in the server, if for whatever reason projector rendering isn't working. In the SV's web UI, go to Administration > Device Manager (this screenshot is from an IMS2000, but the SV is identical):

If, as in this screenshot, you do not see an entry called "SubtitleEngine" in the list of devices, you can add it by pushing new, selecting it from the dropdown, and then saving. Reboot the SV and projector, and see if that works.

will test that too after updating the server/projector. not sure where subtitles are rendered yet. To my knoledge, i could swear the subtitles where already burned in on the video itself. maybe most of them are, just this one it's not?

Thanks guys, as always

Will be back with the results soon.

[Pete Naples]

Was the DCP ingested with the projector/IMB powered on?

[Jim Cassedy]

To my knoledge, i could swear the subtitles where already
burned in on the video itself. maybe most of them are, just this one it's not? .

Most DCP subtitles these days are rendered either in the server or projector depending on
how your system is configured. Sometimes you can tell by the ISDCF language code.
In theory, if the subtitles are rendered locally the sub language code will be in UPPER
CASE letters. If the subtitiles are are burned in to the video, the code will be in lower case.

For example: The subtitles in this CPL would be rendered locally in the projector or server:
BigMovieTitle_FTR_S_EN-EN-CCAP_OV_Atmos-HI-VI_4K_...etc

But the subtitles in this CPL would indicate they are 'burned in' to the video:
BigMovieTitle_FTR_S_EN-en-CCAP_OV_Atmos-HI-VI_4K_...etc

The 'gotcha' here is that some studios & distributors are better at strictly sticking to the
ISDCF Naming Convention Rules than others. I have seen more than one CPL that had
the subtitle code in upper case, which should indicate that the subtitles are locally rendered,
but which actually had the subtitles 'burned in" However, I have NEVER seen the opposite
error. So, if see the subtitle code in lower case, you can be almost 100% sure the subs are
burned into the video.

[Leo Enticknap]

If they're burned into the video, then there won't be a problem, regardless of the server, media block and projector in use, and what versions they're on.

The problem happens if they're not, and are in a timed text file on the DCP, or set of PNG image files that have to be superimposed on the image. There was a crucial hardware limitation on Series 1 TI boards - something like a maximum of 128 characters per line of subtitle text, but I can't remember exactly. If that was violated, the subtitle rendering engine crashed. There were further problems when SMPTE DCPs first came out, with older server software being unable to read the subtitles and pass them to the projector. And finally, when studios started to use the ability to encrypt audio and timed text as well as the video in SMPTE DCPs (AFAIK, Interop only enables the video to be encrypted), that caused a fresh set of problems that required updates.

DolRemi servers (DCP2000, DCP-2K4, ShowVault/IMB, and IMS1000 through 3000) have a feature that I haven't seen in any other line of servers, which is the ability to read timed text from the DCP and burn it into the picture on the fly, before passing it to the projector. So if there is a problem with the projector that is preventing it from rendering subtitles, it doesn't have to. These servers also have the ability to treat CCAPs as OCAPs (i.e. project them as if they were regular subtitles): useful if you want to play, say, one open captioned show a week for a handful of customers who request it, but don't want to faff about ingesting an extra version of the DCP and asking the studio for a key for it.

[Carsten Kurz]

I think (some) GDCs can do burn-in-on-the-fly (server-side subtitling) as well. And, well, Sonys always do it that way ;-)

[Leo Enticknap]

I think that's the case with the SR-1000, and furthermore that it doesn't give you the choice of server side rendering or not. There are configurable Cinecanvas options in the SX-3000's UI, suggesting that it doesn't. Can't remember if they are there in the 4000 or not, but they're definitely not in the SR-1000's UI.

[Marlon Martins]

Hi, sorry for the long delay. we let for the technician to fix it, as updating servers/projectors is outside my confort and knoledge zone, he said he tried to fix, but didn't work in the end.

All movies after Black Panther didn't show subtitles (we have a few sessions with subtitles, 95% is dubbed). We have been using the second screen to show movies with sub (it has a alchemy server, worked fine there)

So, only a few days ago, i thought "well, let me try myself then, i have nothing to lose".

First thing i tried, was Leo tip, to see if "SubtitleEngine" whas listed, and was not. Added it, Subtitles showed up fine.

I was like, WTF? didn't the technician tried this??? apparently not.

Well, working fine now. Thanks guys as always, your knowledge is extremely helpful, as you can see, we don't have the best support nor groups to help in Brazil

Cheers!

[Leo Enticknap]

The problem is in the projector, then. If the server and IMB can do what is needed to burn them into the video on the fly, they (I guess) can do what is needed to pass them to the projector. Are the projector and ICP on the current software/firmware versions (2.10.117 and 4.5.454)? Maybe there is a glitch with the Cinecanvas options in Barco Communicator?

[Shibu Paul]

Enable Clossed caption options at SR1000 , DCP2K4, DCP2000 Server for subtitles enable following type contents BigMovieTitle_FTR_S_EN-EN-CCAP_OV_Atmos-HI-VI_4K,

[Carsten Kurz]

Leo, I think Marlons issue is solved, no idea why the tech didn't get this right instantly.

[Leo Enticknap]

He solved it by enabling subtitle rendering in the media block. However, there has to be a reason why subtitle rendering in the projector (ICP) worked once, but then stopped working. I'd be interested to know what this reason is, in case I ever have to troubleshoot this issue for a system which does not have the capability of rendering subtitles in the media block (e.g. Dolby DSS).

[Harold Hallikainen]

Is there a danger that subtitles may be enabled in BOTH the projector and server causing the subtitles to be rendered twice (and slightly differently)?