Avatar 2 and the plethora of formats

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

Hey, Mike- I'm just curious: Do you mean your screen is only 30' wide, or that you only have a 30' throw from the projector?

30 feet wide. I think the throw was about 80 feet.

[Jim Cassedy]

Disney sent out a notice advising theaters of the extended ingestion time required for AVATAR W-O-W.
When I saw the huge file sizes the other day, I knew it was going to take quite a bit of time on our less
than speedy in-house IP network, which would also back-up all the other ingest work for other shows
we needed to get done, which would be queued behind the Avatar ingest. I had received AVATAR
W0W on both Satellite & a physical DCP drive. So yesterday, I ingested the DCP drive directly into
two of our servers. It took a total of 5h 30min total to ingest it into both, while other films were playing.
Then, I programmed our TMS to transfer the content from those two servers to the remaining ones
overnight once the theater closed. It took all night, but it was all done when the theater opened this
morning, and it won't bak up all the rest of the work I needed to get done for all the other shows
(some of them one-off Christmas specials) later this week. But i"m glad I didn't wait till the last
minute to start on this- - and I've advised a couple of projection friends "at another theater" who
often wait till the last minute to ingest content that they really should jump on this ASAP.

The text of the DIsney note was as follows:

Please make sure that all of your theatre locations that are playing the film are ingesting their
Avatar Way of Water content early, and testing content as soon as keys open (midnight tonight).
The ingesting period for this film takes longer than normal, so please make sure you are not
waiting until the last minute.

[Steve Guttag]

So, today, it would appear...the "masses" have deluged me with questions about which version they can play or what they should ingest...etc. Many sites now have a mix of vintage DCP equipment and some new ones as the older systems have failed. So, the new players, yes they can handle 48fps without too much fuss (except for 4K/48...you have to have the right combination of equipment for that).

And, it would appear that there have been some re-issues of things? People are telling me that they are having to ingest new things as well?

This is already sucking!

[Mike Blakesley]

Mike, what does 7.1 have to do wit screen width? 7.1 breaks the surrounds into 4 channels and has zero effect on screen channels or screen width. It merely adds a depth to the surrounds.

Ah..... I was thinking 7.1 meant there was another couple of speakers on the stage for a total of 5 across.

But either way, we don't have it.

[Leo Enticknap]

Cinionic have published the attached document, listing software/firmware versions (and in the case of Series 4 projectors with an IMS3000, a new input configuration file) needed for the various versions of Avatar to play OK on Barco equipment. There is no "please keep confidential" header or footer on it, which I take to mean that it's OK for me to pass it along on this site.

The links to downloads do require you to have a MyBarco account/login. If you need to update and don't have one, I'd suggest contacting your regular service tech. The updating should be do-able remotely if push comes to shove, though personally I prefer to be there when flashing new software/firmware.

[Steve Guttag]

Carsten beat you to it...check post #14

[Buck Wilson]

According to our corporate bookings we are slated to play the following across 6 auditoriums-

24fps 2D
24fps 3D
48fps 3D

However, we don’t have keys for the 24fps 3D and deluxe says we’re not booked for it?

And according to the projectionists letter they want us to maximize screen size based on common width or common height masking. Wonderful idea, except they didn’t send us a scope 48fps 3D, only flat. And I can’t seem to get through to anyone to get the scope content/keys.

Regal, on the surface, has been providing lots of “let’s get this set up and tested early and do everything right, we’re here for you!” and yet I’m sitting here spinning my wheels for 2 days trying to get things correct…

[Steve Guttag]

Buck, you are not the only one. The concept of this many variations was/is bound to beget massive confusion and the miss-match of keys to specific versions.

[Leo Enticknap]

Carsten beat you to it...check post #14

Sorry.

The latest fun and games I'm having is GDC users suddenly realizing that their servers don't have a high frame rate license, and they've only been issued KDMs for the 48 FPS versions. Grrr.....

[Buck Wilson]

Well we got keys to the 24fps late last night and the scope 3D content showed up on a hard drive today so things are looking up

[Steve Guttag]

So, the latest in from the trenches.

Not all combinations of the versions are available. One of the oddities is if you are going to run one of the HFR versions, you are limited to 5.1 sound? One would think that a "Dolby Cinema" would want a Vision, HFR and Atmos. I know that 100% of our 4K/HFR capable sites can run, at least 7.1 and all have, at least 1 Atmos theatre.

A theatre that had me install a projector, yesterday, to get more light on their 3D screen was getting grief from Disney about getting the 6fL version of the movie. Why? Yeah, before pulling the trigger on getting the replacement projector, they could only handle (barely) to 4fL version and accurately reported that on their pre-release report. But now they've improved their equipment prior to release, they don't want it run in a better quality show? Eventually Disney agreed but why the struggle?

You send out letters about trying to put out the very best presentation and that Disney is making all of these crazy versions to do that...when an exhibitor, specifically, for your movie, makes an improvement and then you make it difficult? Why? Who does that benefit?

Can anyone confirm that the HFR versions (48fps) in 2D or 3D are only available in 5.1 and neither the immersives or 7.1?

[Philip Jones]

We've only been sent the 5.1 for the 2D HFR (48FPS)

However we can't play that because for some reason the colours are all messed up - mostly purple. The film appears to be playing properly and in 48FPS, it's just the colours that are wrong.

The standard 24FPS is fine and we're using the same macros etc.

Not sure where the problem is but it is occurring in 2 auditoriums with CAT862 DSS200s with NEC1200s, and another auditorium with the same server but an NEC2000.

[Mike Blakesley]

A theatre that had me install a projector, yesterday, to get more light on their 3D screen was getting grief from Disney about getting the 6fL version of the movie. Why?

Well they won't allow a single screen to offer 2-D showings along with the 3-D, even though it would make them more money, so they don't exactly always operate on sound logic over there.

I watched the first 30 minutes or so of our 3-D, 5.1, 24fps, 4fl version last night after a struggle with the key -- for some odd reason the first key (which I received in e-mail) would not work, but when I downloaded it from the Deluxe website, it did work. The movie looks great visually. There's a battle scene about 10 minutes in which is pretty spectacular.

[Jim Cassedy]

Can anyone confirm that the HFR versions (48fps) in 2D or 3D are only available in 5.1 and neither the immersives or 7.1?

Disney won't allow us to pay the 3D version, so, me & management decided to go with 2D/48fps, and while ingesting the other day,
I looked at all the versions sent to our satellite server, and also on the hard drive that was sent, & I could not find a 2D/48/7.1 version
anywhere. The only 7.1 vers files were for 24fps. I even searched on the DeLusional website and did not see that 2D/48/7.1 version
files or keys for us anywhere. WTF?? So we're running 2D/5.1/48 (actually "96fps" since we have a dual projector system)

[Steve Guttag]

We've only been sent the 5.1 for the 2D HFR (48FPS)

However we can't play that because for some reason the colours are all messed up - mostly purple. The film appears to be playing properly and in 48FPS, it's just the colours that are wrong.

The standard 24FPS is fine and we're using the same macros etc.

Not sure where the problem is but it is occurring in 2 auditoriums with CAT862 DSS200s with NEC1200s, and another auditorium with the same server but an NEC2000.

Okay Philip...for your system to work with 48fps (or 60fps) you'll need to do some tweaking!

The CAT862 can go up to 60fps...but not in 4:4:4 color....so it, basically, uses the horsepower of both cables to get the frame rate up and carry the bandwidth. The DSS200 will switch modes when the 48fps stuff hits but you'll need to change your projector configuration with the 48fps content. Alternately, run the whole show as "3D" so you don't have the player changing modes.

With the DSS200/CAT862, when in 3D or HFR, you need to be in an MXFI colorspace (TCGD is DCI_Xenon)

Set the server to 3D mode if running mixed 24 and 48/60fps (the 48/60fps content will effectively be in the 3D mode regardless of how you set the server but then you’d have the 24fps stuff at one color space and the 48/60fps stuff at a different one) and create a suitable 48/60fps channel on the projector. Use the MXFI color space. The projector will need to be in 3D mode but with a 1:1 setting (2:2 probably works too).

3D file settings (for 2D):

1:1 (2:2 should work too)
Line Interleave where first line = Left, second line = Right
Input Frame Dominance Left

If you don't have the MXFI PCF files (they don't seem to always be included), I can get them to you. Again, the TCGD would be DCI_Xenon (Color_Verification works in a pinch).