NEC900c not switching formats.

[James Wyrembelski]

I've noticed on my projector that switching formats can be a tad frustrating as the projector gets fussy with me when switching between DCP and HDMI.

For instance, we're doing holiday classics this weekend and just went with blu ray as the rental is significantly lower. I do have local businesses that advertise so I want those to be shown in the minutes before show time but those come to us as a standard dcp flat/scope format. So, I play them in DCP Flat then manually switch over to HDMI to use the player and we'll get sound but no picture. Only works if I completely reboot the system.

This has always been the case with this projector and it's never really been a problem as we've never done a program like this before. Was a tad irritating tonight that I had to restart the system tonight while people waited.

I was so proud too as I was using a monitor with an hdmi splitter so I could keep the douser closed and hide any indication it was a blu ray. Hate people noticing they're watching a blu ray, but the projector wasn't having any part of it.

[John Thomas]

The ideal process would be to rip any Bluray content and convert it to DCP. There are many benefits to doing this with the only real drawback being the time it takes.

Two questions:

What is the make/model of your playback server?

Going from your splitter to the projector, are you adapting HDMI to DVI for video and running audio from the bluray player as a separate signal chain, or are you sending HDMI straight into your mediablock and letting it pass through to the audio processor?



Also: Having an HDMI splitter inline complicates things. In some setups they're a lifesaver by stripping HDCP, but in other cases they're a killer because people get into EDID trouble with them.

[James Wyrembelski]

Server is an IMS1000

The projector simply just does not like to switch from DCP to HDMI. It will not project any picture unless it is rebooted no matter what you have set up into it (splitter or no splitter etc.) However, it WILL switch to hdmi and play content just fine as long as any DCP content has not been played.

[Carsten Kurz]

Oh my. Those early Doremi IMS HDMI inputs are wonky bastards. Have you ever tried using a 'cheap' hardware HDMI switcher? These are passive devices, simply connecting/disconnecting all(most) HDMI signals. Other than a splitter, they force an HDMI handshake with every switch action, similar as a cable reconnect (just that it doesn't torture connectors). I usually prefer having a switcher between source and projector/preview monitor, also because it makes sure that as long as I have an image on my preview monitor, there is none on the projector for sure. No need to give up your splitter, you could also use this switch just as a signal breaker.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/18396870513...is&media=EMAIL

https://www.ebay.com/itm/22458017694...is&media=EMAIL

Being passive, they work bidirectionally - that is, one source to two displays, or, two sources to one display.

Not the most elegant hardware, but, it may solve certain problems.


Whatever, you probably need to buy a few more HDMI gadgets to be prepared for situations like this. An EDID manager could be handy as well. These all cost only a few dollars.

[Steve Guttag]

First off, it's not the projector (or it is a server/projector combination), it's the server. From the projector's point of view, it is JUST looking at the server. All of the HDMI switching is happening at the server.

How are you doing the HDMI switching? Do you have a macro set up to do the job or are you creating an HDMI show with a suitable "live" cue?

Officially, Doremi always wanted one to do it via the "live" cue in a DCP and NOT via Macro.

Live Cue:

Screen Shot 2022-12-17 at 5.00.08 PM.png

Note, this can be placed in a show too so you can switch inputs.

Macro:

Screen Shot 2022-12-17 at 5.01.24 PM.png

Macro set as a "Quick Control":

Screen Shot 2022-12-17 at 5.01.40 PM.png

Whichever way you are trying it, try the other. I, no longer, have any IMS1000s that I regularly support. They're all IMS2000s and IMS3000s and, when possible I try to use projector inputs.

You say you douser down between things...on the NC900 that is a virtual douser (it just puts out grey). Naturally, ensure that it is in the "douser" open state and that the proper macro is selected. While experimenting on this, try putting up a test pattern. They are generated at the ICP and disconnect the inputs to the ICP (the ICP is a 2x1 switcher, among other things)...you may find that when you clear the test pattern, you have a picture (the ICP and Server had to sync up again). A potential problem is the frame rate change between the HDMI source and what came before it and how the ICP or server dealt with that.

[James Wyrembelski]

I know it's the server. It's an integrated one and I'm just using the term "projector" as an all inclusive statement. Douser is always open.

The thing is. I have the macros, I can control it via the web ui or the separate control software, I can change it on the actual side panel. It does not output HDMI if anything DCP has been played previously unless it is entirely rebooted. That's why we've all scratched our heads. Should not matter what way we control the input being displayed, it should just do it. No different than switching inputs on your TV.

Just thought maybe someone would know if it was some type of weird security thing or just a quirk of these machines in particular. I've maybe used the HDMI output a handful of times over the past 5 years. This has been our only public use of it in those 5 years so it's not really a huge deal.

I kept the machine in HDMI since last night and just tested it. Everything works beautifully. I'll just skip the ads for the last two shows.

[Marco Giustini]

Welcome to the wonderful world of consumer HDMI.
Ditch the splitter. Cheap ones won’t work most of the time. For a good reason: the hdmi protocol is designed to exchange the display information when it handshakes with the source. If you have a projector and a monitor, which is going to talk to the source? Good splitters will properly simulate a display - and then you hope that whatever the source is sending makes both actual displays happy.

get a blu Ray played which has two outputs or a proper hdmi matrix whichever allows you to set EDID manually (but honestly, there is so much crap on the market).

if you remove the splitter and you keep the player turned on, do you see issues?

[James Wyrembelski]

The splitter works fine.

It does this no matter what is hooked into the HDMI but ONLY after a DCP has been used.

I can hook an xbox, blu ray player, computer, splitter, the vacuum cleaner into the HDMI port and everything works as intended. But it will not display anything if it has not been rebooted after playing any type of DCP content.

[Gordon McLeod]

I have found almost all IMB requires a reboot when HDMI format was used especially going back to DCP

[John Thomas]

It's interesting you mention vacuum cleaner because that changes a few things.

The integration deal with Dyson happened sometime after the IMS1000 and has caused quite a few headaches over the years. Have you tried something lower-tech like an Oreck or Swiffer WetJet? EDID should be straightforward on anything like that even if you're patching through a Keurig (unless it's a K-Mini... GDC's one-off deal on the K-Mini really complicated it for the rest of the manufacturers. You actually have to call Christie if you have issues with those). Dyson's development of their Airblade technology famously coincided with the release of the IMS2000 but even then the HDCP support was a little touch-and-go after 2.8.16. I can't tell you how many times I've had to explain to new techs that just because the Airblade V in the mens room uses the same backplane as their Cyclone V10 at home doesn't mean it's going to just work. They always get to the usual status screen that shows HEPA filter usage and blade sharpness but can't login. Truthfully that's less of a firmware thing and more of a licensing issue though, and Dolby will generate a DLM if you ask nicely but support ends at the end of this year.

So Dyson or not, if it's working at all but you still need to reboot then everything must be configured perfectly and you must be doing everything right.

[Frank Cox]

Well, John, that really sucks!

[Marco Giustini]

The splitter works fine..

I've done dozens of install where "the splitter works fine" until it doesn't, requiring equipment reboot. The fact that it works when you test does not void the points I made on my previous message.

[Armand Daiguillon]

Someone above said it and i'll def second it ...forget HDMI unless you are showing a live stream or something - if its a blu-ray rip it and covert to DCP.
Aside from you not having the issues you are having, the playback is better visually and the audio is as well. Every HDMI input i've seen will only give you 2 channel stero sound. Your IMB typically will not decode the the dts or dolby compressed audio tracks on the bluray. But if you convert to dcp that software can give you the full audio as it was intended. I would also check that you are set up in the way that Steve mentioned above, it makes a difference to.

[Marco Giustini]

Well, it depends on what equipment you have. Indeed the DTS is an issue with some processors but it's not with others.
If you have an 850, it can decode Consumer Dolby Atmos for example. You just need to feed HDMI into the 850 first and then into the IMB.

Visually, it should be the same assuming you are keeping the correct colour space. If it looks "better" then I'd think there is something wrong with your Blu Ray setup (most of the time it's the black level set incorrectly!)

[James Wyrembelski]

It really is not the splitter though. This is the first time I've used a splitter with this machine. It has done this since day one. Machine was installed in 2015. It has done this with every piece of HDMI equipment, splitter or no splitter, ever.

No need to spend dozens of hours ripping blu rays when you have basically one show per day. Just close the douser. That's why I put the tv monitor in. Literally took 5 minutes to set up vs hours waiting on DCP programs and ripping blu rays. Everything went fine aside from not being able to have pre show ads. Not really a big deal since showing blu rays here is incredibly rare. I played theatre organ music instead. Was actually a nice change.

The player I have has a separate audio line out that went right into the CP750. Elf, which we played yesterday, had full 5.1 sound.

Gordon mentioned most IMBs having to do a reboot process for this, which is what I was suspecting but wasn't sure if it was just my machine or all of them in general and just wanted to be sure it wasn't just me.