Barco SP4K Series 4 Projector Issues

[Rick Cohen]

I was one of the first customers to install these Series 4 laser projectors in the fall of 2020. I purchased four of them. They have had issues (both critical and non-critical) right off the bat. One projector needed the SMPS replaced. Another projector needed a new light engine. All of them have intermittent laser plate notifications, where one or more of the laser plates do not turn on when they are supposed to. It started out as a light sensor notification, but after a software update the notifications changed to the laser plate. By going into the GUI, the diagnostics verify that certain lasers have zero output when this notification is active.

I have sent in countless logs to Barco. They have had me swap out the light sensor, the fan controller board, the Cinema Controller Board, and the SMPS. We have reset the colors and white point multiple times.

They even sent their own technician out last June to go through all the projectors for three days, and they had him swap several LDM cards (Laser Driver Module) to see if the laser plate issues were tied to the LDMs. That didn't produce any results, either.

Essentially, I have spent almost a half million dollars on four laser projectors that have not been functioning properly for over 2 years, and have jumped through every hoop imaginable in an effort to resolve the issues with Barco, and I am still where I was two years ago.

There is also another annoying intermittent notification regarding "Media Server License Applied, Reboot Required" even though the IMS-3000 Media Server License was applied two years ago. The notification keeps popping up on all four projectors a few times each week, for no apparent reason. The issue has been escalated with both Dolby and Barco, but neither company will take responsibility for it, and it has yet to be resolved after two years.

My only conclusion is that these projectors are full of glitches or bugs, and new units should not be sold until those problems have been resolved. While these issues are essentially non-critical. they are also not indicative of a product that is stable or ready for a broad rollout. It is certainly not what I was expecting from a marketplace leader.

If any other technicians have experienced similar issues, I would love to know if there is a resolution which I am not aware of, short of tossing them in the dumpster.

[James Gardiner]

Thanks for sharing Rick. I would have to agree based on the description, there are serious issues here, serious enough to question fit for purpose.
Personally I am very surprised Barco would allow this to happen, they are typically very particular about QC. Considering its been 2 years, unless this is systemic I would have expected to swap them out and brand these units as lemons. Take them back to the factory and dissect them to find out what's going on.

My only other comment would be.. Check your GROUND connection for the building. I had a site I was doing all the tech side, we contracted a cinema installer to do the electricals. Took 1.5 years to figure out the ground (As in power) was not done correctly and it was wildly fluctuating and the result was random faults all over the place. Cost us a fortune. (Wanted to throttle the contractor)

The type of issues you are seeing could very well be caused by that issue.

[Steve Guttag]

I, now, have multiple sites running the SP4K series of projectors. The vast majority are SP4K-12C, with some SP4K-15C, a couple SP4K-25C and one SP4K-35B. Almost all have the IMS3000 as their server with an SR1000 or two in there as well (none with the ICMP/Alchemy).

I have not had the experiences you've had on ANY of them. The first units went in 2020 (yes, that year) at around June and went fully operational labor day of 2020. I've had one Light Source Board (LSB) failure, early in life, so I attributed it to infant mortality. I've exchanged a small number of ICP-Ds but I think those were all due to software issues, mostly Barco and some with Dolby (IMS3000). They were done at the behest of Cinionic and I think we were all learning what the various failure modes were or what was a timing thing that could be addressed via software versus actual component failure. Once the software (Barco) came out that addressed the issues, they did evaporate. I did have one freakish lens issue where the zoom motor on the lens stopped working...those are the same lenses as used on the DP series and not an SP4K specific issue...never had that one before (or sense).

The big one on the SP4K series, and it won't be limited to just Barco, is the .98" 4K DMDs (TRP), as used in the SP4K get stuck pixels at an incredible rate. If one considers that 4K chips are 4 times as likely to get a stuck pixel as 2K (there are 4 times as many mirrors) and then multiplies that out with the TRP style chips are more likely to stick in the first place, it has geometrically increased the odds of getting a stuck pixel. I'm well into the double-digit, percentage wise, in 2-years, of stuck pixels. There is no rhyme or reason...I've had them on projectors just a couple of months old as well as over 2-years. Thankfully, the SP4K series has about as easy a change out of the light engine as one could hope for (aside from having to converge it...always RED is the bear). It is my understanding that this issue is being addressed at Texas Instruments and how the DMD is made (that is where it has to be addressed).

If it matters, all of my installations use a UPS on the projector electronics which does mean that there are two ground connections (which sort of goes towards James' comment though since they both ground at the same load center...if one is bad, so is the other but there is twice the chance of a good solid connection).

I won't say there are no errors ever on boot up. There are the non-fatal "yellow" oddities here and there where some line in a macro may not execute on boot up but that clears when a show starts. For instance, using legacy protocols with Q-SYS as a control system, I noted that the projector will not provide status until a macro is selected (they wake up in a neutral state), so I have the automation system (eCNA) issue a command to select a special "WakeUp" macro that does nothing more than clear test patterns as a harmless macro (once that is selected, macro, dowser, lamp...etc status is available). Every once in a while, it will fail the execution of that clear test pattern, with a yellow warning. I'm experimenting with delaying the execution so we're not so close to the boot up of things. I doubt others are running into that sort of thing.

At all of our sites, the projectors are put into the ECO state at night...so they do go through a boot up each day. The exception would be if content is transferring, unless we have Q-SYS monitoring transfers, in which case, the projector is delayed form going into ECO until the transfers are completed.

In short, I'm not seeing the same sort of failure (and frustration) rate as you are, with respect to Barco component failure and spurious errors or needing to recalibrate. In fact, component failure (except the DMDs) has been quite low (one board for me in over 2-years). Though people's memory fade quickly, the S2 projectors (and servers, when DCI compliance was a thing) caused MANY MANY software updates, with servers sometimes getting daily updates of some sort. Early ICPs were troublesome. My biggest software issue with the SP4K was with the ICP-D and the IMS3000 where shows may start with no image (putting up a test pattern and then clearing it would restore the image and it was normally on the first show of the day but it could happen later), has been addressed and that no longer happens. The remaining 1st show issues on boot up are mostly with the IMS3000 booting up in a bad state. They are not too common...just enough to be annoying as any boot up issue is annoying...but, in that case, it is not a Barco issue.

[Sebastian Binz]

The big one on the SP4K series, and it won't be limited to just Barco, is the .98" 4K DMDs (TRP), as used in the SP4K get stuck pixels at an incredible rate.

Unfortunately, I can relate to that. Our brand new SP4K-15C, installed in December 2022, has now developed a stuck pixel.
Are you aware of any activities or developments regarding this issue on Barco/Cinionic or TI's side?

[Steve Guttag]

You should speak with your Cinionic representative as they can speak to how they are handling the situation (and they are).

[Jesse Crooks]

As the lucky winner of a stuck pixel, a bad lens, and a faulty IMS3000 (mercifully all under warranty) I will say that I never want to watch movies on my xenon screens again after getting an SP4K.

[Darin Steffl]

Jesse,

Are you saying you enjoy the performance/quality of the image on the SP4K aside from the defects?

I have one that we're installing in April but now I'm nervous of these issues. Maybe the standard 2 year warranty isn't enough for the pile of issues being reported.

[Dylan Forys]

I know this is an old thread, but has anyone experienced any issues as of late? My cinema is finally looking into getting the laser projectors and we are debating between either a Barco or an NEC. If there are major problems still occurring with Barcos then I would rather go with the NECs.
Thanks,
Dylan

[Sascha Roll]

We have a Barco SP4K-20 (0,98") with B-Lensmount an HC Lens since March 2023, around 5200 operating hours until now.
ICMP-X: Flawless, Zero Problems
SP4K: Lightengine replaced after 10 months due to stuck pixel, which seems like a Common issue on the 4k 0,98" DMDs. On Warranty.

In General it's a good projector, Energy efficient, quiet. A bit flimsy with all those thin plastic materials... Good Lens mount imho.q

The Image with the HC lens is "OK", but nothing to write home about, compared to the Christie Cinelife+ RGB series.

I was told the SP4K Machines with the 1,38" DMDs Look a lot better.

Still, we probably won't buy a second Barco for our 7 Screens - the Image of the Christie CP4415/20/25s with the UHC Lens looks way better than the Barco Image.

For me personally there is absolutely nothing that speaks for NEC, Image quality wise.

[James Gardiner]

I was told the SP4K Machines with the 1,38" DMDs Look a lot better.

Still, we probably won't buy a second Barco for our 7 Screens - the Image of the Christie CP4415/20/25s with the UHC Lens looks way better than the Barco Image.

Really? I went to some demos just in the last few weeks. Barcos looked great.
Christie, speckle was of the charts compared to Barco (On equivalent screen gains). And I could see color issues in the image compared to Barco laser/xenon images of the same content.
(I pointed it out to some others during the demo as we went from site to site looking at units. Their mouths dropped in surprise once I told them how to identify the issue)

Due to my observations, I am slated to see some more demos of better installations. But I wouldn't recommend a Christie over a Barco based on the demos seen. "At the moment."

The Barco, if all the kinks are worked out, is also much better engineered. Barco Series4 are the only projectors that you can replace laser modules similar to replacing LAMPS. In spot, without the need to move the projector, and only hours of work. All other vendors need major works that also need you to pull them of the pedestal to complete. (Far more labour and effort to pull it apart.)
Barco also uses life of the projector rated Fans and cooling systems. Long term TCO is hard to beat, though up front they tend to be more $$ comparatively. I expect this explains why large Chains favour Barco, and independents like Christie. Up front costs appear better with Christie, but long term, Barco looks better.

[Steve Guttag]

Since Jesse's comments sparked the concerns...
The IMS3000 is not a Barco issue. Relatively early in life it had a catastrophic failure...I can't say that has been common. Most of the IMS3000 issues I've had have been the dreaded SSD (internal that runs the OS) that got corrupt on one specific generation of them and boot up issues. If you run your projectors 24/7, you won't have those.

The lens issue was a freakish motor issue that I've only ever had happen on one lens and again, not a Barco fault, per-say...that would be InVision.

The stuck pixels are intrinsic to the "TRP" series of DMD chips (a TI) issue. This is why they have been pulled from production and Barco has paused the sale of the SP4K-C projectors until the new "SST" (more of a conventional .98" DMD but in a 4K) passes their QC and is ready for deployment. Until then, they have their interim projectors, the SP4K-B series from SP4K-12B through the SP4K-25B...at the same price as the "C" projectors. So, you get a 1.38" 4K chip (the same as has been used with with the xenon projectors for over a decade and is used on the larger 35-55B projectors) for the "C" price. Knock on wood, the replacement light engines that have been using DMDs made in late 2023 seem to not be getting stuck pixels at the rate of the original batches. On the up-side, the SP4K light engine is about as easy to change as one could hope for. I just wish I wasn't so well practiced at it!

As of August 1st 2024, all Barco projectors (and the ICMP) come with 3-years of warranty (like Christie has been doing for years).

In my opinion, getting the "HC" version of the lenses makes a significant impact on the final image. You get a bump from 2000:1 to 3000:1 (give or take a couple 100) but, even more than that, the whole look of the image improves, notably. It is sharper...the convergence is better, particularly at the edges, where some lenses really can't handle 4K...particularly from the "C" sizes. Another plus for the "B" lens mount on a .98" projector...you get some incredible lens shift capabilities. I STRONGLY recommend that, regardless if your lens will zoom/focus out of the box that you center the focus ring and do a full Scheimpflug/back-focus alignment. You'd be amazed at how much better your corner-to-corner focus can be as well as minimizing the amount of focus variance between your 1.85 and 2.39 zoom

Where I think Christie is getting an image edge is the fact that they use Minolta lenses exclusively. Barco sources from Minolta, Fujion and InVision. Barco's Minolta lenses look better than the others too. There are good and bad examples from all of the brands but, by and large, the Minolta's have a better track record, better chance of getting a "good one." Christie also has a broader line of HC and UHC lenses. Barco has no HC lenses for their "C" lens mount but does have HC for S and B lens mounts and reserves the VHC lenses just for their HC projectors (27HC and 13HC)...which are very expensive to get you out to 5000:1 (Barco's HC projectors have a modified light path to get higher contrast even before you get to the lens). Christie, on the other hand, claims out to 6000:1 on the UHC lenses, available for their Cinelife+ line.

As for NEC, you really got to be careful on which one you pick. Their "S" sized projectors (anything with a .69" DMD) has miserable contrast and they don't typically, get the power benefits as much as the other brands. The S platform projectors also have very bad lens registration. They can't hit their mark in the same place twice. Their 4K .98" projectors from the "ML" line will have the same stuck pixel problem as the chips are the issue. The 2K variants from the ML line should be as solid as the NC2000, however. NEC also, very much, a laser-phosphor company. I don't know if they even offer an RGB laser projector anymore. They tend to top out at RBB (with a green phosphor wheel). The 2041L and 3541L are 4K, 1.38" RBB projector and look decent. Then again, the 3541L has 54 fans so consider that when it comes time to replacing them. How fast can you change 54 fans when you have to disassemble the projector a ways to get to some?

[Stefan Scholz]

Unfortunately, I can relate to that. Our brand new SP4K-15C, installed in December 2022, has now developed a stuck pixel.
Are you aware of any activities or developments regarding this issue on Barco/Cinionic or TI's side?

Contact your supplier, as long as it is in warranty, and the failed light engine will be replaced by Barco, as it is a common failure issue with these machines, under warranty.
They claim the newer batches are improved.

[Dylan Forys]

I appreciate the info from you all. As I expected, it sounds like all of them have their demons, but a lot of the kinks have been worked out. Would someone be able to explain to me the biggest differences between the Phosphor wheels with RBB, The RGBs etc. I understand the basics that the RGB is going to be best but I am very new to looking into these and love learning more about it. I just want to make sure I am leading our ownership into the best decision we can make without blowing out our budget!

For some background, I started managing in a theater in March of 2020 (great timing haha) so I am very new to a lot of things. Our theater opened in late 2019 (also perfect timing) with a group that had never owned a theater before. Fortunately we have had a lot of help along the way from some of our other local theaters and a few other members of management with a lot of experience. We want to keep improving our operations and guest experience and have finally hit a point where projector upgrades are financially possible and sensible thus sparking my need for information. Again I appreciate all the help and look forward to learning more through these forums

[Leo Enticknap]

As Steve has fully explained above, there were some significant teething troubles with the Series 4 line for the first couple of years or so after it was launched in 2019, sticky pixels on the "tilt 'n swivel" light engines being the biggest one. But a combination of hardware and software/firmware updates have made them pretty reliable, now. For projectors sold in the last couple of years, the only consistent issue I've noticed is that the red laser driver boards have a habit of burning out: I've had this happen on four projectors so far. The only other hardware failure I've seen in recent years was a backplane go bad after the projector was in service for only a month or so; but I suspect that this was a case of "infant mortality" as distinct from a systemic problem.

As for laser phosphor vs. RGB, this article explains it pretty well. The only thing it doesn't mention is that the phosphor wheels in laser phosphor projectors require periodic replacement. Barco suggests every 20,000 hours for the DPXK-BLP and CLP line.

[James Gardiner]

As for laser phosphor vs. RGB, this article explains it pretty well. The only thing it doesn't mention is that the phosphor wheels in laser phosphor projectors require periodic replacement. Barco suggests every 20,000 hours for the DPXK-BLP and CLP line.

Those models are not current/available.
I was under the impression the current/new Barco SPxK series-4 range phosphor wheel was now rated much longer. 40k hours, memory fails me exactly. But again, it's in field replaceable. (Like the laser modules)
When I did an overview of the new S4 product range, it was impressive that they have gone to the trouble of making all consumables rated to life of the projector. (Fans, closed liquid cooling loop etc) so I think the phosphor wheel was too. Please correct me if wrong.