Barco DP-2K Series Laser Upgrade

[Paul Finn]

There has been much discussion herein of xenon vs. laser projectors for a replacement application. For the Barco DP-2k series there is a xenon to laser upgrade/conversion package available to extend the life of the projector and incorporate the perceived benefits of a laser light source.

It would be helpful to hear from those who have made the conversions and if the procedure is a good alternative, practically and economically, to replacing the entire projector or making costly repairs (think light engine). Possibly the age of the existing projector is also a factor?

Thank you, Paul Finn

[Steve Guttag]

Paul,

Some things to keep in mind.

You are essentially, only changing the light source, not the rest of the optical path (different notch filter is the change to the light path). So, if your light engine has take on some dirt...that will still be there once your are converted. If your light engine was to get a stuck pixel or a formatter were to fail in 6 months with the xenon...these things will still occur in the same 6-months. The ONLY way the conversion could "extend" the life of projector is you:

• Believe xenon lamps will no longer be available in the period of time you feel the projector will remain viable.
• Believe that the parts for the laser conversion will remain available while things like the Xenon LPS, and SPG will become unavailable.

I could never make the money work on the smaller projectors (3KW and lower). I also figured the time to "catch" the projector for laser conversion would be in year 6 or 7 as one can extend the warranty out to 13 years, instead of 10 so you really are getting, at least, half of the projector's life as a laser based light source.

What you, essentially, pick up is to no longer need to change lamps (but you could have a VERY expensive laser and phosphor wheel expense down the road and a savings on electricity.

Do your own ROI (not by way of a manufacturer that is trying to sell you something). What is your annual cost for xenon lamps (including labor to change them) plus what are you spending on electricity (including possible heat load) to run the xenon. At what point does laser make a business sense? The lower in wattage your system is (e.g. 2KW and smaller), there is no way that laser conversion ever pays for itself on lamps and electricity alone.

Now, if you are running over 3KW...that changes the dynamics a lot (and 3KW is on the bubble). The larger lamps produce more heat with each additional watt than they produce light. Xenon lamp costs go up geometrically with size and their lifespans reduce at a similar rate.

I brought this up to a drive in we support that runs 6.5KW lamps. However, to them, that lamp will last one season and their season is short enough that they couldn't justify the laser upgrade so they remain with xenon. I'd think for most people running 6KW-7KW, you couldn't get the laser system in fast enough.

[Dave Macaulay]

We've done a few. The process isn't daunting, you tear a lot of stuff out - Lamphouse, LPS, ignitor, and a bunch of sheet metal. The lamp data module is reused mounted around where the ignitor was. Connecting the laser module and panel is a bit complicated and running the wires to the front isn't easy as they go where no wires were planned.
If you have other similar projectors these parts are good spares at least.
You should have an "integrated" ICP, they have a USB not present on earlier models. Without that you can't complete the conversion... it still works fine but you will have a red tail light and LPS error forever (or until you buy a new ICP). You can't use the new SIM card with the new model number like DP2K-15C+ either with an old ICP. I don't know when the ICP changed.
Colour calibration is weird. Use "native" colors and do the calibration, colors look odd but that's laser for you. They read correct on a color meter. Normal ones like USL PCL (ie the less expensive ones) work for these phosphor systems but not RGB so that's good.
Overall a good upgrade but you still have the old everything except the power module and light source. It may be better to get an SP projector and have a full warranty.

[Marcel Birgelen]

I think there are only a very few cases where upgrading a xenon projector with a laser light engine will make sense economically. Only if xenon lamps would become unobtainable or would go up in price in high factors, it may eventually make sense to do so. Maybe if you're going to re-use a projector on a bigger screen and now need more light, it could, maybe, make some sense?

It's like those 2K to 4K upgrades that were available for some Series 2 projectors, it also never really made any economical sense to deploy them, rather than to replace the entire machine and either shove the old projector down the corridor into another room, sell it off or keep it as a spare.

[Stefan Scholz]

Yes, it can be done, and that's what the others said.
For me, it's solely a business model, for those that sell conversion kits.
Xenon offers the best possible light source, and you immediately see it. The phosphor conversions rely on the same principle as fluorescent tubes. And do you like FL lighting?
These also "measure correctly", but you can see, it's not sunlight.
If you're into all the benefits, go for new RGB. THe light sources are claimed to have double the life of a phosphor wheel and blue semiconductor source. THe color looks better,
and the energy usage is way lower. A new projector comes with everything new, a full factory warranty, and a good chance for years of trouble free service.
Your old unit might have a flash ROM die, the need for more 4 digit repair figures on a computer based item now approaching 8, 10, or more years.

[Gordon McLeod]

and you have speckle

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

and you have speckle

Screen shaker time!

[Marcel Birgelen]

I recently was Googling for a part number for a screen shaking system, it's funny what you find when you search for screen shakers.

IMG_20140816_153521-off-back.jpg
If that doesn't shake your screen, it will probably shake the entire room. Maybe that's a new method of getting rid of laser speckle.

[Paul H. Rayton]

That (▲▲▲) shaker might be good to install underneath some seats in the auditorium, and shake a few loose coins out of pockets....?!! Might be a tad bit noisy, though.

[Leo Enticknap]

Giggle.

I brought this up to a drive in we support that runs 6.5KW lamps. However, to them, that lamp will last one season and their season is short enough that they couldn't justify the laser upgrade so they remain with xenon. I'd think for most people running 6KW-7KW, you couldn't get the laser system in fast enough.

Agreed. I've done three of these conversions, all of them in drive-ins, and all "transitioning" from DP2K-32B to DP2K-36K-RGB+. The light on the screen shot up from 3-4 ft-l to 10-11! In one of the sites, which had both of their projectors receiving the surgery, the manager told me that his motivation wasn't reduced bulb and power costs, but getting more light on the screen. This was during the pandemic, and this drive-in was literally the only movie theater in LA County that was allowed to remain open. Studios were offering special events and rentals, but demanding that something be done about the dim picture. Over a year after most of the pandemic restrictions went away, they've retained most of the audience boost they gained while they were in force.

[Barry Floyd]

We've looked into upgrading our existing Barco DP2K-23B'S to laser and the costs wasn't as crazy as I initially thought it would be. If I remember correctly it was somewhere around $18K per machine. However, I'm trying to justify spending another $20K per projector on 10+ year old machines. My drive-in is almost completely debt free (will be in December), and I'm not sure I want to go in debt again for another 5-10 years to do it. The movie business isn't what it was even 3-4 years ago. While we're holding our own and still making money, it's not the same amount of money we were bringing in 3-4 years ago. If we ultimately have to replace the entire projectors, I'll likely just retire or sell the land for warehouses.

[Steve Guttag]

And that's just it. Let's go with the $18K per projector. With 23Bs, your max lamp size is 4KW. How many years of lamps does $18K buy? Now, you'll need to also do the difference in electricity, which will narrow that. Is it reasonable to think that the projector itself (light engine, boards...etc.) will all still be going at the ROI point? With 4KW, the answer is maybe. As posted earlier, the higher in wattage you go, the better the laser deal looks. 4KW lamps barely get over 1000 hours. If we're talking about 3KW lamps, then the electric savings drop by 25% over 4KW and the lamp life goes up at least 50%...which is why the ROI shifts so quickly as the lamps go up in wattage (or down, if you are looking at it from that perspective).

Imagine paying the $18K and within a couple of years you need an ICP or light engine, neither of which are helped/altered by the laser.

I remained concerned by what I see as a pending epidemic of ICP failures across the DLP brands that should be happening right about now and increasing until all ICPs presently in the field, fail due to certificate batteries no longer able to hold the certificate.

[Leo Enticknap]

Especially as there currently appears to be a supply chain issue with ICPs. A customer of mine had one die the week before last, and NEC told us that ICPs were back ordered with no ETA currently available. At least with Barco you have the option of an ICP-D, but if there is a shortage of TI boards, then if one goes in a Christie or an NEC, you're buggered.

[Bruce Cloutier]

Supply chain issues reverberating from the COVID shutdown continue and clearly are shaking up product availability now to the point of endangering older lines and delaying newer. For us it has been a huge adventure game to keep ourselves in a position to fill orders. Maybe more of an action game? Feels a little first person shooter actually. Still we have some stuff we cannot manufacture.

Relative to the $18K investments, sometimes you just have to do something just for pride in the results. If there are grumpy investors then ROI becomes the cross you bear and, well, dred. I have $200K into solar for the home and everyone asks about the ROI which is dismal, like 20 years. It is not about that I tell them. Although, it is nice for the real-estate to turn a profit without having to sell it.

[Leo Enticknap]

Interesting. The ROI on rooftop solar in Southern California is a lot quicker than 20 years. When we installed it in 2016 we were told 7-8 years, with the life expectancy of the panels being 25. Using rough, back-of-envelope math, I reckon that our system paid for itself in 5-6, thanks largely to inflation busting increases in the cost of buying a kWH down the wire during that time.