New DCP Projector / System Suggestions

[João Santos]

Hello,

I work for a small cinema venue in Portugal. In the midst of this pandemic, we had the crazy idea to use the downtime to try to upgrade our projection system, in order to play DCPs (mainly commercial ones). Problem is, as always, we're very cash strapped - but not so much as to be oblivious as to what our goals are. Also, I know very very little about DCP systems.

Anyway, what I'd like for you guys to help me with, is some questions:

1) What projectors are there that could be bought on the cheapie / second hand + DCP servers;
2) Could I connect a BARCO FLM HD20 successfully to a DCP server? And if so, what kind?
3) What kind of audio processor do I need to connect to a DCP server for sound? And is it adaptable say, for a drive in cinema / FM transmitter?
4) Do you need a constant internet connection in order to play DCPs / unlock KDMs?
5) Is there any more equipment besides projector / server / audio processor (and the audio speakers, of course) that I would need in order to play DCPs in good quality at our cinema?

I appreciate any help you could give me, as I want to learn and know more before going on a dumb spending spree.

Best regards,
João

[Carsten Kurz]

How large is your screen, about how many seats do you have? What kind of sound system is in place (speakers, types, numbers, etc.)?

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

A word of caution on buying used equipment... Which ever you actually do decide to purchase, then contact the manufacturer to be sure there is still support and parts available for the items. Quite a few projectors and some servers no longer have any manufacturer parts or support available. This is mainly due to unavailability of some of the various semiconductors used in them.

[João Santos]

How large is your screen, about how many seats do you have? What kind of sound system is in place (speakers, types, numbers, etc.)?

The screen is around 15m wide by 7m tall (~49 feet wide 23 feet tall I think). We have around 300 seats, and the sound system is a simple 2 speakers near the screen + 2 speakers in the back + LFE connected to a sound mixer where we feed in the audio from a computer. The main thing we're looking to upgrade though, is the projector + DCP server.

[Dave Macaulay]

1) What projectors are there that could be bought on the cheapie / second hand + DCP servers;
There are a lot of series 1 (older) cinema projectors on the market, and some series 2 (newer) as sites upgrade to more modern equipment (with a warranty). Also quite a few external servers, as current projectors tend to use internal servers. Beware of units at end of life and no longer serviced by the manufacturer - all Dolby DSS servers are in this category for example.

2) Could I connect a BARCO FLM HD20 successfully to a DCP server? And if so, what kind?
No. A digital cinema projector must be DCI compliant with security hardware that is not present or available on FLM projectors. Barco cinema projectors are almost identical to their non-cinema ones but do not have the extra secure enclosures for the boards and light engine plus a lot of security software.

3) What kind of audio processor do I need to connect to a DCP server for sound? And is it adaptable say, for a drive in cinema / FM transmitter?
There are many audio processors. For a drive-in you don't need a processor, a D-A converter and mixer will do the job to feed a stereo transmitter. For a normal cinema you likely want a 5.1 system minimum, there are lots of processors to choose from. Also 7.1, Atmos, etc is possible with some processors.

4) Do you need a constant internet connection in order to play DCPs / unlock KDMs?
No. You receive the movie on a portable hard disk or via internet/satellite then get a playback key (KDM) via email (if the movie is encrypted).

5) Is there any more equipment besides projector / server / audio processor (and the audio speakers, of course) that I would need in order to play DCPs in good quality at our cinema?
Other then the obvious stuff - seats, screen, projector, server, processor, amps, and speakers... there's not anything else necessary... maybe a popcorn machine?

[João Santos]

1) What projectors are there that could be bought on the cheapie / second hand + DCP servers;
There are a lot of series 1 (older) cinema projectors on the market, and some series 2 (newer) as sites upgrade to more modern equipment (with a warranty). Also quite a few external servers, as current projectors tend to use internal servers. Beware of units at end of life and no longer serviced by the manufacturer - all Dolby DSS servers are in this category for example.

2) Could I connect a BARCO FLM HD20 successfully to a DCP server? And if so, what kind?
No. A digital cinema projector must be DCI compliant with security hardware that is not present or available on FLM projectors. Barco cinema projectors are almost identical to their non-cinema ones but do not have the extra secure enclosures for the boards and light engine plus a lot of security software.

3) What kind of audio processor do I need to connect to a DCP server for sound? And is it adaptable say, for a drive in cinema / FM transmitter?
There are many audio processors. For a drive-in you don't need a processor, a D-A converter and mixer will do the job to feed a stereo transmitter. For a normal cinema you likely want a 5.1 system minimum, there are lots of processors to choose from. Also 7.1, Atmos, etc is possible with some processors.

4) Do you need a constant internet connection in order to play DCPs / unlock KDMs?
No. You receive the movie on a portable hard disk or via internet/satellite then get a playback key (KDM) via email (if the movie is encrypted).

5) Is there any more equipment besides projector / server / audio processor (and the audio speakers, of course) that I would need in order to play DCPs in good quality at our cinema?
Other then the obvious stuff - seats, screen, projector, server, processor, amps, and speakers... there's not anything else necessary... maybe a popcorn machine?

Thanks for the reply! It's keeping me on the right track.
Some follow-up:

We've our eyes on a secondhand "BARCO DP 2k23B". The seller says the "TI Board" batteries have depleted and we should buy new ones and replace them - seems like the projector has been in storage for years and that has depleted those supposed batteries. Do you guys know anything about this, is it common, is it easy to solve?

[Carsten Kurz]

Don't jump onto something too quickly, even if it looks tempting - DCI gear has some special twists, and you need to know your ways through it. It is indeed true that some components in a typical DCI setup use batteries to maintain certain parameters. Now, some of these cells, you may replace them for a few € and your good to go. However, with some, it is not so easy, and replacing a battery may not be possible, you then may need to buy a new board, or reconfigure the projector with a new board setup. And that may become very expensive. You can see this can be troublesome, as quite often, stuff has been put into storage, and will come out in a non-working state. Even some cinema operators do not know about these things. New boards with these implications can cost 2000-8000€ easily. and only rarely are they to be found on the second hand market.
Also, you always need to think about the projector AND the playback server in combination.

Per se, a Barco DP2K-23B would be a suitable machine for your screen size. While these projectors usually come with a variable zoom lens, you need to find out the right lens for your screen size/distance combination. If the lens that comes with the projector doesn't fit your need, you may need to buy another one, and these are not cheap as well.

- Carsten

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

We've our eyes on a secondhand "BARCO DP 2k23B". The seller says the "TI Board" batteries have depleted and we should buy new ones and replace them - seems like the projector has been in storage for years and that has depleted those supposed batteries. Do you guys know anything about this, is it common, is it easy to solve?

Let the seller do this for you and then give you a demo of the working projector!!! IF HE REALLY WANTS TO SELL IT HE WILL DO THIS! It also depends on which batteries have gone bad... On Series 2 T.I. ICP boards, one battery is user replaceable(Clock Battery) and one is not. because it is the certificate battery and it is soldered in place. A new ICP is 3000 USD+

[Marcel Birgelen]

We've our eyes on a secondhand "BARCO DP 2k23B". The seller says the "TI Board" batteries have depleted and we should buy new ones and replace them - seems like the projector has been in storage for years and that has depleted those supposed batteries. Do you guys know anything about this, is it common, is it easy to solve?

It may seem a bit like an echo, but I'd never just buy a second-hand DCI projector with "dead batteries", unless it's really dirt cheap and can primarily be used as a spare-part host. If the ICP has gone bad, I'd ask the seller to fix it and sell me a working machine. Like mentioned before: finding a replacement ICP that actually works on the second-hand market isn't straight-forward. Sourcing one from Barco won't be cheap either. Also, you may just have spent a few thousand dollars/euros on a replacement part and may find out something else is broken too...

[Dave Macaulay]

There are several "TI batteries"

• ICP has a replaceable clock battery, no problem if it goes dead. Also a non replaceable certificate battery, card is dead if that goes flat. Repair may be possible? Expensive card.
• TI "Enigma" module on the SDI input card: only on SDI projectors, not on IMB or integrated server (ICMP, IMS, etc) ones. Roughly one year life on internal rechargeabe battery. Dead = dead and unrepairable... best to get an integrated server or IMB server at that point as SDI servers are obsolete and the Enigma is very expensive.

I think the 23B is a great projector, much better than any S1 model. You should price an ICP and Enigma assuming they are dead, and negotiate a price for the projector based on this added cost to make it usable.

[Ioannis Syrogiannis]

I would just add to the above that, if the ICP and/or Enigma/IMB/IMS boards are dead, in which case you would talk a lot of money, a combined solution, like Barco's Alchemy could be the one for you.
Apart from that, though, the question is, who will guarantee to you that there is no other problem with the projecting part?
I mean, if you can't at least have the ICP board to show on a screen (or something) a few test patterns, how can you tell that the optical parts, for instance the integration rod (where the light gets homogenised) are not bad?
What about the lens system?
What about the cooling system of the projector?
What about the electrical parts, like the PSUs or the igniter?
I would also love a 23B, but you can't just depend on a vague estimation of someone that gives you half the facts. ("You should replace the batteries.")

Mark's suggestion, to have a demo of that projector shown to you makes total sense.
It could turn out to be more expensive for you to repair it than buy another projector.
If the seller can't produce such a demo, an integrator may have the spare parts that are needed for such a test run, so you can estimate what you are up against before any purchase.

In any case, good luck and -please- write two words if and when you find what you were looking for. Your feedback could help others as well.

[Dave Macaulay]

Even with dead batteries the projector might project test patterns. I believe it should project DVI video and possibly even unencrypted DCP content. I have not encountered an ICP with the cert battery desd though... that may disable all projection. The Enigma is not used for DVI input and I think it can be bypassed for unencrypted DCPs.

[Miguel Mauricio]

Hello Mr Joao, all the opinions are just right. In addition to the above if you want to go for a used or refurbished projector, you can ask an experienced cinema technician to check the equipment they offer to you, this technician must be someone you can trust. He can even tell you if the equipment is worth the money the´re asking for. That´s a sure bet for you since as you say you have no experience with cinema equipment. Please check your e-mail I sent you additional information.

[João Santos]

Hey guys,

Thanks for all the replys, they have been super helpful to get us going. We've reconsidered on the Barco DP2K23B due to the "dead batteries" problem. Right now, we're eyeing a Sony SRX R320 4K, and a Barco DP-2000 we've found at a good price, both in working condition. What can you guys tell me about both of those projectors, and which would be best for kickstarting our DCP projection in our small venue?

Thanks again for all the help!

[Dave Macaulay]

Sony just bailed out of cinema projectors so I would avoid Sony.
The DP2000 is an older series 1 projector and Barco may discontinue support at any time, I don't have any info that they will but it's a possibility... a lot of early D-Cinema equipment is being declared obsolete lately.
It only needs single phase power, at least.
The main issue with S1 projectors is the interface board. There are several models of this board, the very early ones will not work with a DCI compliant server. Later ones will, maybe. The last version, type 5S, is DCI compliant and has that board encapsulated for security: the black encapsulation will detect any attempt to remove it and delete the secure encryption data (and should be handled with extreme care as minor damage may activate this self destruct). That means a battery again: these boards must be charged periodically if not in use much like the Enigma module. And this board, if allowed to go dead, is also rather expensive. I've found an earlier board that gives the same error message (TPM self test fail) which would relate to a dead battery but I don't think these boards have a battery...?
Light output for a given lamp power is lower for S1 than S2. That DP32B is the brightest xenon projector made.
I think getting the 32B checked out is probably the best idea, if it works you get a really good (and still in production) projector.