Retooling cinema for Live Events

[Bill Seipel]

Our theater is located in Elmwood, IL. Its been showing films since 1913!
https://elmwoodpalace.com/history/

Anyway, like most small independents, we're having a rough go. I am pondering changing up the theater's offerings to include live events. But this would mean quite the remodeling effort.

Which brings me to:
What can you tell me about the costs associated with a retractable screen? I've been told $10K and up. The current screen is roughly 25 feet wide and at least 12 feet tall.

If we did get a retractable screen, we would likely have to MOVE the speakers (Three ancient Altec Lansing 'Voice of the Theater' subs & horns. There is "some" room to the left & right of the stage behind a partition. Are there smaller, more modern speakers available? I used to work in live entertainment and it certainly looks like we could get smaller subs & horns.

A lot on my mind. Thanks guys.

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[Phil Ranucci]

https://www.stewartfilmscreen.com/en...cascade-grande
Won't be cheap.
I'd get a structural engineer to look at the ceiling and see what weight it will bear.
Could you slide the screen frame upstage to the back wall?

[Frank Cox]

It looks like you have four feet(?) of space behind the screen so you could move your screen back four feet and since you already have a small stage-like platform in front of your screen you'd end up with 10 feet(?) of stage width.

This may still be too small since google tells me that a "small stage" is 24x32 so you might have to rip out your front rows of seats and build into the auditorium if you really need 24 feet.

That still leave the problem of the speakers, but what's behind the back wall? Could you somehow make cut-outs and embed the speakers?

Here is how my speakers fit into the wall behind the screen:

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Of course, the viability of doing something like this depends on what's behind the wall behind your screen.

[Jim Cassedy]

It would help if you can better define "live events", as that phrase can cover a lot of ground.
One venue I've worked at was able to fly the entire screen and masking frame and the speaker
system up into a loft above the stage. But obviously, unless your venue was built with this in
mind, it would be an incredibly expensive retrofit. At another venue, we had a portable stage
which extended 6 or 8 feet out from the existing stage in front of the curtain/screen. It took
about an hour to set up & break down, once you got the hang of it, and there was just enough
space to store it behind the screen when not in use. Depending on the nature of the event, we
would also sometimes take out the first row of seats. Some other things you'll need to consider
if going 'live" is that you are gong to need some additional lighting and sound re-enforement.

PS> The theater I'm currently at dates back to 1916- so yours has a couple of years on mine.
There is still some of that same pressed-tin wall & ceiling treatment backstage here too.

[Bill Seipel]

The huge Altec Lansing 'Voice of the Theater" are directly behind the existing screen. Three of them. So, yes removing those would gain us only about 4-5 feet of stage. Then we'd have to figure out where to put them.

On the other hand, we could build the stage OUT. The front row is already a wash because of the existing stage "extension". And that would be considerably LESS than the cost of a retractable screen.

[Bill Seipel]

It would help if you can better define "live events", as that phrase can cover a lot of ground.

At this point it likely means music groups. Smaller groups.

[Armand Daiguillon]

For now, i'd do nothing. Put your theater out there on event sites (like gigster) and see if there is even interest. Most things dont need a big stage. We built an 8x16 stage in front of our screen and we have not had anybody need anything bigger. If anything, go the cheap route and expand your existing area a bit - don't consider spending big bucks unless you know for sure you'll get a return on it.

[Bill Seipel]

For a 25 x 12 (rough) screen I was just quoted $35k by Harry at Stewart Screens. The Luxuas Grande at 2:3:5 aspect with about a foot of black mask on top/bottom.

https://www.stewartfilmscreen.com/en...s/luxus-grande

Suffice to say I am ready to just build out the stage and let the acts come to me.

[Steve Guttag]

Stewart is the best roll down in the biz...and 4-5 times to cost of others...but they are the only ones that really look like a fixed screen when they are down. That said, you NEVER want to use anybody's roll down, if you can avoid it. They don't age well as the vinyl is unsupported. They will stretch/wrinkle and need constant retensioning and eventual replacement.

While you have not shown your speakers other than to call them Altec Lansings, that doesn't narrow the model down any. There was a whole line of them. And then there were the Simplex XL speakers that also had Altec components and the Voice of the Theatre name. There are smaller speakers but they are also less efficient. Depending on the models considered, yes, you can improve upon the sound, most likely (it all depends on your room and what new speakers are chosen...it won't be easy). Generally speaking, flyable speakers as well as those that will stand up to being moved on/off stage or flown will be notably more expensive than traditional cinema speakers. Cinema speakers are built to be installed permanently and, as such, don't have the construction/bracing that roadworthy speakers will have. Cinema speakers were also designed and voiced to play movie soundtracks...not sound reinforcement. This shows up in crossover points and frequency responses. So, again, you are often better off with cinema speakers over commercial ones.

Subwoofers go down in efficiency the smaller they get. It's all about moving air and bigger boxes move more air and play deeper. The smaller the box, the higher the roll off frequency and the less efficient the speaker becomes. That is just the physics of it all.

In general, you're better off leaving the screen and movie sound alone and plan on building out the stage a bit and equip it with a proper system for what you want to provide as a "house sound" as well as lighting. Let the cinema system stay separate (or the live acts will just blow it up...they do not care about what happens after they leave).

[Bill Seipel]

While you have not shown your speakers other than to call them Altec Lansings, that doesn't narrow the model down any. There was a whole line of them. And then there were the Simplex XL speakers that also had Altec components and the Voice of the Theatre name.

In general, you're better off leaving the screen and movie sound alone and plan on building out the stage a bit and equip it with a proper system for what you want to provide as a "house sound" as well as lighting. Let the cinema system stay separate (or the live acts will just blow it up...they do not care about what happens after they leave).

With regard to the speakers, they are huge wooden boxes with the 'Altec Lansing Voice of the Theater' square decal on the side. There are no labels on the back of the speaker, no ratings. Nothing. There is what looks like a junction box attached to the side of each of them. They also feature the 'wings' attached to the enclosure. Attached the photos I took today.

https://www.audioresurgence.com/2023...er%20produced.


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[Marcel Birgelen]

What kind of live events are you planning? Theater shows? Do you need a curtain in front of the stage? Depending on those requirements, I'd rather remove one or two rows of seats and build out the stage you have already, which will be a far cheaper endeavour. As for sound: It also depends on what kind of live events you're going to stage there. A cinema sound system isn't ideal for most live events and quite unusable for most musical performances, but perfectly passable for your average business presentation for example.

[Bill Seipel]

What kind of live events are you planning? Theater shows? Do you need a curtain in front of the stage? Depending on those requirements, I'd rather remove one or two rows of seats and build out the stage you have already, which will be a far cheaper endeavour. As for sound: It also depends on what kind of live events you're going to stage there. A cinema sound system isn't ideal for most live events and quite unusable for most musical performances, but perfectly passable for your average business presentation for example.

I wanted to do small acoustic groups or maybe even a comedian.

I have a background in live sound, so I'm familiar with the differences between a live mic and the mastered sound of a film. I wouldn't want to use our cinema speakers for a live performance.

[Tony Bandiera Jr]

Armand gave the best advice as did Marcel, and of course Steve's expertise is about the best on this forum.

I agree that keep it simple is your best bet. You can do some live sound speakers on both sides of the screen, provide a few floor boxes at the front and rear of the stage for mics and stage monitor speakers. A good 12-24 channel mixer and some EQ and you'd be ready for most small music groups , business conferences/presentations, and live comedy acts.

Most bigger music acts would tend to provide their own sound setups, so you main concern would be availability of CLEAN AC power. An absolute minimum of 3 dedicated 20 amp, 120v for stage outlets, and at least 4 more on both sides of the stage for amp racks and your live sound gear. All of the sound gear circuits should (must, really) have surge and noise filtering, easily done with Furman rack mount units.

Lighting can be a simple setup with PAR cans or other fixtures, hung from the ceiling in front of the stage. The new LED cans do multi color and effects, use little energy, and are easy to set up and control with DMX and a simple light board. You can make portable "Trees" of LED lights for each side of the stage for side fills. Power to all lighting MUST be separate circuits from the sound, and LEDS are so efficient that only a few circuits can do a LOT of fixtures.

All of the above will easily cover 90+% of live shows you describe.

[John Eickhof]

Im with Steve on Stewart screens, sold many of them in home screening rooms in la area microperf is the best for a home screening room...They have the quietest, smoothest roll downs in the biz .. as for those Altecs, they look like A4s, an amazing speaker for their time...they would not be suitable for live performances at high spl a more modern front loaded reflex speaker like a JBL or equiv would save space plus it would sure wake up your response as the components are probably degraded in the N-500 crossovers and the cones on the Altec-Lansing 416s are probably dried out and stiff limiting frequency response and wide crossover window ending up in distortion...just my 2 cents worth, by the way James B Lansing and Altec engineers designed the 'voice of the theatre' speakers just after ww2 in the 1950s, Lansing started his own company JBL and the rest is history! Another thing to consider...be careful when speaking to city, fire and building officials regarding ;'stage' vs 'platform' a stage requires many expensive code requirements that make it very expansive, a 'platform does not but has certain max height from main floor. (depends on jurisdiction)

[Steve Guttag]

From the limited picture, I'm going wtih an older Altec A4/805X or 1005X. And it has its bass-wings...which is good. Note, that is an incredibly efficient speaker...depending on the woofers (it will be a 515 but there was a whole range...it will either have no suffix or as likely, a 515B, is my guess)...it is probably in the 107-108 dB 1W/1m. As a comparison, a "modern" speaker with a double-15" will be in the 97dB-100dB 1W/1m range. With each 3dB requiring a doubling of power. So, you'd need, at least, 2³ , or 8-times the power as those use. The Altec A4 remains a capable speaker, though old. With the bass wings, it can play down to 40Hz and should be easy on the ears. I'm not a fan of the multicell horn. In its day, it allowed the power amps of the day, that had almost no power to play very big venues but there is no getting around that you have 8 or 10 separate horns and as you walk around the room you can hear as you go into and out of each one of them. No, nobody walks around a theatre but everyone gets a different performance, based on where they are sitting. They look like 228B compression drivers (but could be 288C). Diaphragm condition will determine how they sound. If they are in tact, they are fine.

As for the crossover, I agree with John...the N500C is quite old and its components inside (what few of them there are) are bound to be dried out. It was a rather simplistic 2nd order 500Hz crossover with some tap points to set the HF sensitivity compared to the LF (the same crossover was used on the A2, A4 and A5...there is a space in the crossover to mount transformers too for impedance matching).

With all of that said, there has been a long spanse of time between when these were made and now...lots could have happened to them in the name of "repairs" including using incorrect components that "fit." Plus, those are Alnico magnets and they can lose their charge...which could affect them too.