XpanD vs Dolby 3d vs ???

[Sara Meyers]

Pros, cons, your experience with, etc...

Basically what should I go for (I have white screens)

please and thanks!
Sara

[Sara Meyers]

want to make this the top thing in forum so adding this message haha

[Marcel Birgelen]

Well, you've got about three distinctively different systems and variations on it... what works and what not and what's best depends a lot on what equipment you have and what money you want to spend. Like with almost everything else, there might also be personal preferences involved...

The three basic systems:

- Shutterglass based systems
Those systems use active shutterglasses that block the left and right eye turn by turn.
- Polarizer-based systems
Those systems split the image on screen by using polarization filters inside the glasses.
- Color-filter based systems
Those systems split the image on screen by using color filters inside the glasses.

Shutterglass based systems
How they work:
- The left and right eye are blocked turn-by-turn while the corresponding image is projected on screen.
Pros:
- Works with practically all projection system, including laser.
- Doesn't require a special silver/reflective screen.
- No messing around with the projector, no filters on the projector.
- Best left/right image separation of all systems, if you use proper glasses
- Only equipment in the room is a transmitter that the glasses use to sync, this can either be an RF system or an infrared system that usually uses the screen to bounce back from
Cons:
- Glasses are expensive.
- Glasses require charging or battery replacements at certain intervals
- Glasses need to be collected, cleaned (often manually) and re-distributed between shows although most recent XPand3D glasses are dishwasher proof.
- Glasses can be quite heavy, although they have become less bulky over time.
- You need a lot of light, one of the least-efficient 3D systems around
- Although multi-projector setups to improve brightness are supported, they still need to flash the image at the same time. This leads to multi-projector setups being less efficient than in other setups.
Prominent suppliers:
XPand3D
Volfoni

Polarizer-based systems
How they work:
- The polarizer filters in the glasses filter the light destined for each separate eye.
Different subsystems:
- Type of polarization: Most modern systems use left or right rotated polarized light, which improves left/right separation while people are tilting their head. Older systems may use linear horizontal/vertical polarization. While those filters are usually more effective, they can lead to extra cross-talk when people start to tilt their heads towards the screen.
- Most setups use a single projector which alternates the images between left and right. In front of the projector, an active polarizer filter is installed that changes the polarization between both modes in sync with the projector alternating the images for left and right.
- Multi-projector setups usually use static filters. One projector is dedicated for the left eye, the other for the right. This can avoid any flashing, increasing light efficiency and any strobing effect due to flashing the image.
Pros:
- Glasses can be lightweight and cheap and either be provided as disposable glasses or being bought by the customer for a small fee.
- Letting customers manage their glasses themselves saves you the hassle and collecting/cleaning infrastructure.
- Advanced polarizer systems like RealD XL are amongst the most light-efficient systems.
Cons:
- Worst left/right separation of all systems.
- Needs special screens (silver, reflective white screens) that are known to .cause hotspotting and color issues, not just for 3D presentations, but also for 2D presentations.
- Doesn't work with all systems, support for laser-based systems is limited.
Prominent suppliers:
- RealD
- XPand3D
- MasterImage
- Volfoni
- Many smaller suppliers and even some integrators jumped on the polarized 3D train over the years to various degrees.

Color filer based systems
How they work:
- Projectors create a different image for left and rigt eyes based on slightly shifted values for the RGB primaries, the glasses filter those primaries for each eye accordingly using dichroic lenses.
Pros:
- Good left/right separation
- Dual 3P and 6P laser systems can be pretty light efficient, especially dual projector setups that don't need to flash the image
- Works with normal white screens
Cons:
- Only works with a limited number of setups.
- Expensive glasses that need to be collected, cleaned and redistributed after each use, just like shutter-glasses
- Xenon systems need expensive retrofits inside the projector, besides that, the sole supplier of said systems, Dolby, has discontinued support for Xenon systems
- Very light-inefficient when used in Xenon machines
- Older glasses are pretty narrow
- The system does affect color consistency and slight discolorations between left and right may be visible in certain scenes
- Glasses have a shimmering effect on the edges
Prominent suppliers:
- Dolby
- Infitec (non-cinema applications)

This overview is by no means complete, but as you can see, your question may not be so easily be answered...

[Marco Giustini]

"bumping" your own message 4 minutes after the first one was added won't gain much but the disapproval from the users of this forums I think.

Is 3D still a thing?

My view in short:

- Silver screens (or very high gain screens) ruin the overall picture quality - 2D or 3D. BEWARE of those telling you that you are going to gain light with a "gain" screen. You won't, most of the time. They will measure on the hotspot which will inevitably appear on your high-gain screen, ignoring that the corners of the screen are much darker than before.

- Dolby 3D looks best (*) but it is incredibly light inefficient, expect a 7-8% efficiency. That is, if you have 14fL in 2D, you'll get 1.12fL in 3D. That means a lamp upgrade which in turns means your 2D is likely going to be too bright. Serious cinemas (where?) would swap the lamps between 2D/3D shows or would have a second lamphouse available.

Most cinemas (all) would either show overly-bright 2D or incredibly dim 3D (the latter is the cheaper option so the most popular)

(*) assuming you can cope with the reflections inside the glasses and all sort of coloured halos if you are sitting off-centre/too close to the screen)

I cannot stand the flashing of the 3D systems. Most 3D movie have also been pretty bad in terms of how the 3D was made.

So, once again, is 3D still a thing?

[Steve Guttag]

All of my Dolby 3D screens used different lamps for 2D and 3D. And the spread was often quite large...2KW on 2D and 6KW on 3D...or, at the very least 4KW on 3D and 2KW on 2D.

Dolby 3D, via the filter wheel is now obsolete and only supported in that the glasses are still available. Dolby 3D via 6P laser is just about dead in that I don't think Barco has an offering, NEC never did and I'm not sure Christie still offers a dual-projector 6P system, but they might...I haven't checked in a long time. Dolby Vision theatres (aka Dolby Cinema) do still have dual projector/6P laser systems and are very light efficient, as are the 6P systems because there is no filter wheel. And dual-projector means that you don't lose half your light while the "other eye" is being shown.

For white, screens, I'd recommend active glasses like Xpan-D but factor in the cost of those glasses, shrinkage (stolen) and sanitizing against your potential increase in ticket/popcorn sales over showing the same title in 2D. The next Avatar is a year away and there are not enough Avatars (and I suspect that, like other serial movies...their popularity will diminish some with each one) to really justify the whole 3D thing and you don't want to compromise the 2D shows for the few "must-see" 3D ones.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

Either Dolby or Xpand are going to be expensive, but theaters usually upcharge for 3D. Staying away from silver screens is a good thing as they are tempramental at best. If someone throws a drink at your screen, then it's new screen.time. Even so, when customers were presented a cost analysis of Dolby, Xpand and Real-D, they mainly went with Real-D because they did not have to buy the equipment or glasses, but just put up with the silver screen issues. Most tjought their insurance would cover that damage. The viewing area of a silver screen is also much more limited, so you can't really sell the entire house. For Dolby, 4k and 6k lamps are expensive and have shorter lives.

If I were going to install 3D today I'd lean more towards Xpand because you probably may not need to change lamps like you will with Dolby 3D. That is assuming your projector can even accept at least double the lamp size. The downside is that the glasses are electronic and thus are powered, and you have to recharge or replace batteries. If people don't return the glasses, they are pricy, and you lose money, so having people collecting glasses at the exits is important but also represents another expense, as does cleaning and sterilizing the glasses.

[Jim Cassedy]

Is 3D still a thing?

Personally, I can 'take it or leave it' .
Just last night, I ran the recently restored 3D version of "I, The Jury" (1953)
The plot takes place during the Christmas season, so it was part of our holiday line-up.
Earlier this year, we ran about a ½-dozen obscure 3D horror and Kung-Fu flicks.
These all ran for one show each and did decent business. Ironically we did not run
the last AVATAR flick in 3D. I understand it had something to do with too many demands
from the studio, and the amount of time we would be required to tie up our largest auditorium,
which we had already committed to other shows at the time. We use a dual projection system
for both 2D and 3D, and I know the lamp current automatically gets boosted a bit when we go
into the 3D mode. The polarizing filters are manually operated, so you have to remember to
slide them in front of the lenses for 3D and slide them out again later.

[Carsten Kurz]

XpanD vs Dolby 3d vs

First of all - what type of projectors do you have?

[Marcel Birgelen]

So, once again, is 3D still a thing?

Unless your name is Jim and you need to screen some obscure 3D horror and kung fu flicks, chances are, you're pretty safe until Cameron's next Blue-Kitty-Fest comes around... in a year... or two... or three?

[Harold Hallikainen]

Can the Kung Fu flicks be shown in the original red/blue 3D?

[Marco Giustini]

First of all - what type of projectors do you have?

Very good point

A Dolby 3D system would likely require a bigger projector in order to deliver the light required. But - once again - BEWARE of those who claim RealD/polarised systems have the brightest picture as taking a single reading on the HOTSPOT does NOT give you the full picture.

Steve, is 6P not a thing anymore? I guess latest projectors have more than 6 frequencies to reduce speckle, hence making filtered 3D unfeasible? Kind of a shame as - as you say - 3D efficiency with a 6P is close to 100% and ghosting is also almost non-existent. Maybe the only 3D I would consider if I was forced to install one

[Marcel Birgelen]

Barco still offers the Thor+ as part of their Home Cinema Systems as a 6P offering... including support for Dolby 3D. The problem is: They're not part of the Cinionic offering, so support will go through a different channel...

Barco's SP2K and SP4K line of laser projectors aren't 3P or 6P solutions, so they're not compatible with Dolby 3D.

The Dolby Cinema 6P "Dolby Vision" setup using a Dual Projector setup is based on modified Christie Eclipse projectors which aren't available for normal retail markets.
Christie has stopped producing 3P laser projectors, their newer projectors are designed on a laser engine more similar to the Barco laser plate technology and aren't pure 3P projectors anymore and hence not compatible with Dolby 3D. A few months ago, Christie still offered "new-old-stock" 3P projectors apparently, so I guess they still have some stock left?