Talk of banning Mercury Lamps by 2025, does this effect any DCI projectors out there.

[Stefan Scholz]

Admittedly that's a bigger problem with mercury discharge bulbs, because of all the gnarly chemistry in them, but it's a problem with xenon arc lamps, too.

I recently was asked to do a site survey for a 15-plex that has been closed since covid, tasked with advising the owners on what needs to happen in the booths to get it back up and running. All the used lamps, in sizes from 3kW to 7, likely since the place first opened, are piled up in a storage room off the side of one of the booths. I stopped counting after 200, and would guess that there are 400-500 there in total, all in their original packaging. To smash 'n trash all of them would take days, and we'll likely need a specialist freight hauler that deals with hazardous waste (because of the broken glass that will be sealed in the boxes) to take them away.

The original projectionists who failed to do this after each bulb swapout (takes 2-3 minutes) have left the owners of that theater with a very time consuming and expensive problem.

I have recently learnt about specializing companies that do collect intact envelope Xenon bulbs to recycle the rare gas, which seems to be a cost effective solution even including collection and hauling used bulbs over hundreds of miles. Just make a process expensive enough, and thoughts are beginning how to get a competitive advantage done. Xenon has a boiling point of roughly -109°C, immersing the lamps in liquid nitrogen with a boiling point of - 196°C will lead to liquid Xenon, easily extracted in pure form.

The mercury vapor lamp is in theory a perfect light source, extremely pin-point, acceptable mercury line surpression, and ok continuous spectrum, the process can continue indefiinately in theory. In practice, 10k hours design life meaning around 3k hours warranty, based on failiure statistics without need for warranty replacements.
Still, if they explode, a couple of grams of mercury vapor are distributed into the room. Not the best for the persons working in that environment.
There are reasons why it is banned, and there's replacement in semiconductor light sources even at a higher efficiency in lumens per watt.

The question of scale, as pointed out, is true. Designing a replacement is possible, but would require minimum numbers over years to come to be sold. As pointed out, most of the affected projectors are getting unreliable even today, and with increasing rate in the future. And then, these lamps have to be reliable and in case of breakage do not behave different than the genuine ones. I just remember the use of early generation mercury lamps on small NEC 900 projectors, where a bulb explosion also killed the supply units. A time consuming process to replace the PS.

I feel, the manufacturers will stock enough bulbs to keep the projectors going for a few years from now on. And I assume in case of other failures, very few will be kept in service, the failing ones to be replaced, instead of being repaired.

[Steve Guttag]

Where we have those projectors (NC900C and DP2K-6E) I see running a bit longer. The DP2K-6E was chosen due to it having to live in the theatre itself...above an exit corridor (with a pull-out shelf and turntable for servicing, including lamp changes). The theatre is also of the "pop up" variety with a small screen low-seat count so even just a single lamp is more than sufficient to light it up...even on Scope (2.39:1 screen). They put 2-4 hours daily on it with a more full schedule on weekends. As such, their lamp changes are not too often. You run one lamp until its rated life, switch to the other one. Then when the second one reaches its rated life, change them both. We're talking years between lamp changes. The projector doesn't get many hours (comparatively) so there is not sense of need to change it...it performs as it did when new. No popcorn is popped near it, so it doesn't soak up that on its filters either. Just a vacuum with the lamps are changed. Clearly, this would have been done with something like the SP2K-7, had it existed when the theatre was done.

The NC900s (almost) all went in on the "Ticket to Digital" scheme that NEC had towards the end of the digital conversion to get the last few cinemas as NEC made it a rather cost competitive system (they supplied a rack that had a shelf on top to hold the projector, it had their NEC badged IMS1000 server. Hook it up to your existing sound system and you were off to the digital races! Those are the ones we had to live through all of the lamps that couldn't go the distance until revisions 6 and 7 came out. Lotsa ballasts bit the dust on that too (really NEC...you couldn't have put those on some card slides with enough cable slack so one could move the wires over...with the last bit of insult to injury the one screw different from the rest...and it was always the bottom ballast so the top had to come off first....grrrr). The Ticket to Digitals, by definition went into the least capable (money wise) to refund their equipment.

The only other place we have NC900s are in theatres with tiny screens...there was one special venue with a 12'x16' screen (mixed venue and their proscenium was squareish and given the viewing angles...you couldn't go any wider. That was another case of a single lamp being more than sufficient. Being mixed use, a lamp lasts years.

This industry has enough money problems without having to change equipment out at a relatively brisk pace. Remember, film equipment lasted for decades (both picture and sound). Attendance is down, not up. There isn't new money to budget for new equipment every 5-10 years. That said, the equipment at the bottom of the food chain (which the HMI based ones are) typically are the shortest lived because they were built on cost.

[Gordon McLeod]

I believe appotronics has a laser kit for the 900/1000c https://en.appotronics.com/core-components/cinema

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

Yes, in fact Appotronics covers the entire NEC S-2 range. Here is a link to the brochure... It did not like the link to the brochure and would not post it correctly. SO copy and paste it...

https://en.appotronics.com/ALPDcinema/manual/NEC.pdf

[Marcel Birgelen]

Marcel, you make it sound like these projectors will be without lamps in a few years...
I hope you are wrong.... NEC in my region still has some NC1000 run-out units on the books and has been selling them as the only option for the smaller screen market up until just recently when the laser/phosphor unit replacement only just came out. (only months ago). So there are quite a few projectors out there that are very new and were sold with an expectation of lamp availability into the future.
I would expect there is leniency for supply to these expensive units until they meet the expected lifespan. (10 years)

I have some expectations that, even if EU/US are not in a position to make the lamps, other countries will fill the need. Is that an ignorant perspective?

Outside of the EU, the situation is very much dependent on the market going forward, like Leo indicated. There doesn't seem to be a global shortage of UHP lamps, even though production has since been greatly reduced and prices have gone up significantly. As long as NEC still fully supports their mercury based projectors, I suppose they'll make sure there is also some lamp availability the coming years, although it's hard to predict if that will be 5 or 10 years. The situation will most definitely be different for Sony though, since Sony already has stopped manufacturing new stock. While some Chinese manufacturers may latch onto that niche, it remains to be seen how viable this niche is and how good their products work. This is just another reason for any affected Sony projector-owner to start looking arounndl

Inside the EU the situation will be much more clear, though the date is not final yet... But once it gets to be final, after ban has come into effect, you will not be able to manufacture inside, import into or export from the EU. It's still allowed to sell local, existing stockpiles within the EU, although I'm pretty sure that will eventually also be banned.

[Leo Enticknap]

I wonder how much the Appotronics laser retrofit for an NC900 or 1000 costs? I installed the one for a Barco DP2K-32B at a drive-in a couple of years ago. My understanding is that it cost in the ballpark of $35K, but that was for a much more powerful system than an NC900 would need. It might just make sense for a nearly new NC1000, but unless it's only a couple of grand or so, I can't see it making sense for a decade-old NC900 that likely only has 3-5 years of reliable life in it at the absolute most. Another gotcha I noticed from the spec sheet is that its power consumption is 240 at 10 amps, which is a lot more than the 500w claimed (that would be 240 at just over 2 amps). Will it work on 120 at all? A lot of NC900 sales in the US were made mainly or wholly because it'll run on a consumer 120v15a supply.

[Steve Guttag]

My view on the laser conversion systems has been, if you can catch the projector in year 6 or 7, it can make sense. You have enough projector life left that you have a chance at recouping your investment. I'd never do one on say a 10-year old projector because you could be a year or two before you'll be having to deal with a failed light engine (in some manner) or ICP or other big-ticket item. It would be better to put that money towards a new projector with a new warranty and another 10-15 years of use ahead of it.

As for costs of the LLU stuff...it does vary, greatly with lumen amount, as you would expect. For comparison, with Barco, a 10S Lists (not what you'd pay) for $11K...For the price you listed Leo, I suspect that they upped the lumen value on the 32B to 37 (they have two different kits...a 32 and a 37. There is a nearly $8K difference in cost between the two. I'm sure the NECs would be similar.

I'd consider the NC900C more in the disposable side of things and a service nightmare that excels in sucking dirt all over itself. It was built to be low cost, not for high performance. If it puts out enough light for the application, I'd run it until it drops rather than covert it.

[Gordon McLeod]

I wonder how the film production industry will handle the loss of mercury HMI lamps that are the base lamp used in outdoor film replacing the Carbon Arc brute lamps

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

I'd consider the NC900C more in the disposable side of things and a service nightmare that excels in sucking dirt all over itself. It was built to be low cost, not for high performance. If it puts out enough light for the application, I'd run it until it drops rather than covert it.

Agreed, in fact a few customers have begun replacing their 900's with other used S2 DC projectors for now. However, the ICP's in many of the NEC models can be interchanged, so they are keeping the older projectors around in case.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

I wonder how much the Appotronics laser retrofit for an NC900 or 1000 costs? I installed the one for a Barco DP2K-32B at a drive-in a couple of years ago. My understanding is that it cost in the ballpark of $35K, but that was for a much more powerful system than an NC900 would need. It might just make sense for a nearly new NC1000, but unless it's only a couple of grand or so, I can't see it making sense for a decade-old NC900 that likely only has 3-5 years of reliable life in it at the absolute most. Another gotcha I noticed from the spec sheet is that its power consumption is 240 at 10 amps, which is a lot more than the 500w claimed (that would be 240 at just over 2 amps). Will it work on 120 at all? A lot of NC900 sales in the US were made mainly or wholly because it'll run on a consumer 120v15a supply.

I was quoted 5K for an NC-900 retrofit, plus shipping from Chyna. The more power they produce, the more expensive they are... Appotronics produces tens of thousands of retrofit units of all types every year.

[Leo Enticknap]

So assuming that in a typical multiplex usage pattern, you go through a set and a half of regular lamps a year - say, $1K a year in lamp costs - this retrofit would take 5-6 years to pay for itself. For an almost new projector it would be a no brainer, but for a decade-old NC900, I don't see it making sense.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

Just wanted to know if anyone has heard of this worldwide pushback on mercury lamps? There are a lot of small cinemas with NC900/1000 and a Barco equivalent out there.
I thought they might be Mercury-based, but a quick Google does not bear fruit in that assumption.
I read recently they are looking to ban them by 2025 in the EU.

Are the lamps in these NEC models affected?

I think you may find some of your answers in this article... The ban is effective Jan 1 2026. Looks like Appotronics has been preparing for this...

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

A little more info on cinema here. Kinda looks like they don't want to give away too much tech info at this point in time.

[James Gardiner]

Yes well, appears quite realistic now that all the UHP lamp-based projectors have a 3-4 year lifespan left as it would appear, with what is in place, that they are going to find it hard to get lamps after that time.
Another cut in the ongoing saga of death by a thousand cuts for small cinema.

[Gordon McLeod]

I suspect most 900c will have far more than 3 years left of life I still service NC2500s and original production run 1200cs and I dont expect a mass failure rate tomorrow. Yes one has to throw parts at them but one was doing that with film machines too