Playing from MP4 and Blu Ray

[Scott John]

We took over an old cinema during Covid and have been slowly upgrading the equipment that was all well past its expected lifespan.

We play a lot of older and niche titles and some distributors don't have DCPs for them. They either have an MP4 or say if we get a blu ray the fee is significantly cheaper.

We don't really know an elegant way to play from these formats. If our tech is there he can play directly from a laptop, and just manually does all the cues like keeping the dowser closed while disc menus are up, or doing the curtains and house lights himself.

Is there a way to be able to handle these formats and have them part of playlists and our regular scheduled playback? Our shift managers wouldn't be able to do it all manually for a regular run so right now we are limited.

Currently we just rip the Blu Ray and turn it into an MP4 and then convert to DCP using DCP-o-Matic or Davinci Resolve and then play normally.

A distributor today just acted like that was weird and that we should be able to just use our MP4 player. I don't know a way to do that directly except for the above which is fairly complicated.

We have an IMS3000 with a Dolby CP950 audio processor and run an old Christie CP2220

[Steve Guttag]

The preferred way is to always convert to DCP. That has the highest reliability (once you are confident in your settings for formatting the picture and getting the sound levels right). Yes, it takes the most lead time but it will work every show.

When using other media, you bring on all of the video and their copy protection issues. Things will work great when you test them but will fail at show time (screen will blank out every few seconds as HDCP re-handhakes...etc.). You also then have to address sound.

Automating the show is another issue. You can build a show up of "blank" clips and cue that so the server times out when the cues should fire (start your media and the DCP of blanks at the same time) but clearly, there is room for disaster there too. Within Q-SYS, which you don't have, most likely, I worked on a module for integrating the Tascam BD-MP4K player so one could set a credit cue and end show cue based on the player's run-time counter but again, now you are getting into custom stuff.

Which brings me back to...for automated shows, convert to DCP (I'd use MKV as my interim format from Blu-ray and DVD) and use MakeMKV. Some also like Handbrake.

[Randy Stankey]

A distributor today just acted like that was weird and that we should be able to just use our MP4 player

Whoever that person was, they are clueless. Keep doing it the way you have been. It's the better way, like Steve says.

Years ago, I had a run in with a distributor who didn't want to send me a particular print because we had a Potts platter. He said, "Potts platters damage film!"
I just laughed and said, "Not if you know what you're doing!"

Two days later, I got a message from the receiving room that two cans of film had just arrived.

The guy you talked to sounds as clueless as the guy I had to deal with.

[Scotty Wright]

You don’t have to convert to mp4 to make the dcp. Like Steve, I use MakeMKV to rip the disc and use the MKV to create the dcp. Works like a charm.

[Ryan Gallagher]

--EDITED-- Missed that OP had already mentioned DCPomatic.

We maintain hardware players here, and do use them in a pinch, but the preferred way would be to take the time to make the DCPs.

For playing MP4 directly, unless you dedicate a computer to the task... your only other option would be if your blu-ray player supports MP4 data discs, or if you add a dedicated media player "set top" thingy, and host a plex server or some other way to play the content within an app there. None of those play as friendly with automation as just making a DCP does.

[Mike Blakesley]

Studios get nervous anytime you are "making a copy" of something. It's probably the same ancient mind-set that keeps them insisting on 3-week playtimes for new films that will be on streaming in 45 days.

The paperwork we get with private show bookings says that "you are only licensed to play the film from a DVD/BluRay." I always took that to mean, you're not supposed to make a DCP. Of course like any other theater worth its salt, I always convert everything to DCP. If the customer is providing the movie, I tell them that we must have the BluRay at least 3 days before the scheduled showtime in case anything goes wrong.

Yes, it takes the most lead time but it will work every show.

We had a private show during the pandemic of the original "Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three." I already had it on DCP because it's one of my favorite movies. I loaded it up like normal, and about one minute before Walter Matthau delivers the big punchline of the whole movie at the end, the playback just stopped cold. It was as if I hit "Stop" even though I didn't. The monitor screen still had the same info as always, as if it was playing, but it had stopped. I finally hit Stop, then hit Play again, fast-forwarded it to the same spot, and it played through without an issue. I still don't know what happened that time. My best guess is a small power glitch.

[Dave Macaulay]

Making a DCP is best. The main issue is compression: for a DVD, BD, or MP4 the image data is saved as key frames and difference frames - only pixels that are different are saved for several frames then a new key frame is provided. And minor differences can filtered out, but that's a different story - some rerun TV shows are known to have odd distortion like mouths moving while the faces stay static.
So if something happens that confuses the player's decoder you can get a weird effect of pixellation or freeze until a key frame comes. The higher the compression ratio used, the more difference frames are sent between key frames and probably the change filtering is more severe.
DCPs use JPEG2000 full frames, a full frame for every image 24, 30, 48, 60 images a second. The increased data takes a lot more storage but a glitch should only affect one frame.
You can't get more image quality that what the video encoding engineer gave you, but the show should be less prone to avoidable image weirdness. And you don't have to deal with menus and FBI warnings. Plus be able to make a playlist with whatever added content you want.
It does take time and some experience to rip source material and make a DCP, and studios do some tricks to make it difficult, but once done you have it forever. For a one off birthday show of some kids film I would just play from DVD but if it's a more critical show I would make a DCP. Almost any PC can do it but a higher spec PC will go much faster and DCP-O-MATIC can, I believe, use some graphics card types' processing power to accelerate the process.
I have heard of shows delayed because the PC playing a file decided to lock and do updates just before showtime as well.
And please don't try to use an Apple PC to play via HDMI to a cinema projector. Just don't.

[James Gardiner]

The key to a good DVD/BluRay to DCP is to make sure, when you rip it to a mp4/mkv, you ensure the original encoded stream is in the rip and its not re-encoded. So then the DCP tool uses the best possible quality to fed into the J2K encoder. Make sure you go to either 24 or 25 fps based on what the DVD/BluRay is. Avoid any 4% pitch shift. The 5.1 in a domestic release is a close field mix so will likly sound different to the original theatrical mix. But usually sounds pretty good. Watch out for levels, it may be mixed louder then theatrical. Its not something I have done for a very long time.

[Carsten Kurz]

A distributor today just acted like that was weird and that we should be able to just use our MP4 player.

Then just tell them you use your MP4 or Bluray player. They don't need to know about you using DCP-o-matic.

[Scott John]

Thanks for the responses... I am glad I am not crazy. I was second guessing that there was some tech or software plug in that I didn't know existed which allowed mp4 to be played directly from our server.

We will keep doing it as we have always been doing.

[Mike Blakesley]

just tell them you use your MP4 or Bluray player. They don't need to know about you using DCP-o-matic.

While it's true that they don't need to know, they DO retain the right to request your projector's logs at any time, which will reveal anything you have played. Even creating the DCP under a "code name" won't work in hiding the title because the true name is in the DCP specs, based on the file name from the video source.

But the chances of them doing that are rare -- unless they start suspecting you of playing unlicensed shows of their old movies. That's why it's best to always license everything you play for an audience. (I've gotten into more than one heated "Come on, I own the blu-ray, why should I need to pay to license it" conversation with patrons.)

[Carsten Kurz]

If they supply MP4 or Bluray, they have no right to request any logs, as these logs are strictly DCI content related, and they wouldn't even be able to pinpoint CPL UUIDs in any logs. No distributor has the right to request logs for other than his titles.

In 11 years, we have never been requested to give out any logs. Most cinemas/projectionists do not even have the knowledge to export playout logs.

[Steve Guttag]

The only time I've heard of logs being requested (demanded) is if bootlegging is being suspected.

I'd be amazed if a studio were to go after anyone for a disc to DCP transfer...unless they were to send out their DCP. If a copy of their movie was licensed to be shown, unless they had a very specific version was licensed (and if they are telling the theatre to use a Blu-ray, that is the version licensed), that is the version shown. There isn't really and good legal basis to get upset. The problem comes if the copy is distributed or unauthorized presentations are made (which could be done with the Blu-ray too). And, if Blu-rays are licensed for a performance, what if they use a distribution amplifier to send one player to say 3-screens...is that covered? I'd think so, providing the rental agreement percentages are met. I'm not saying that a sly lawyer can't make a case but it will be a challenge to get a victory in making a distinction to a judge/jury about copyright unless there is a specific clause in the contract that one could point to.