ICMP-x battery issue on a Barco DP2k-8s

[Jim Cassedy]

I guess the last few months must have been odd for techs working in the field, as they could actually
work on a lot of the equipment during normal office hours.

When this thing first started back in March, I was contacted by several of the venues I do some work for
who were talking about using the 'down time' to do a bit of clean-up or re-wiring & in some cases replacing
a few pieces of equipment like an aging amplifier or a ditzy dimmer. Not being part of a major service
organization, the first problem I ran into was SUPPLY. Just about all of the places I would have ordered parts
or 'stuff' from was closed. By the time they opened back up, the theater owners were reluctant to have me
start work because at that time, they thought their re-opening date was imminent, and didn't want me to do
anything (like waiting for parts to arrive) to delay that. When it became obvious that the re-opening day goal
post kept being moved further and further away, with no end in sight, they all just told me to "forget about it"
as they weren't sure they wanted to put more any money into a business that they had already lost thousands
of dollars on, and may, in some cases, never re-open.

I do know two owners who used the "down time" to do a major clean-out of 'junk' that had accumulated back-
stage or in their basements, since the logistics of doing so while the theater was operating normal hours was
a bit tricky without disturbing the show. (Too much noise - or the need to turn on lights back stage behind the
screen, or because the only access to bring stuff up from the basement was through the auditorium)

[Leo Enticknap]

The only planned maintenance we have been doing recently is at drive-ins and residence theaters. The problem with drive-ins is that although you can do the work during normal office hours, you can't actually check that all is well (at least you can with audio, but not pix) until it gets dark.

When this all started, I anticipated a tsunami of emergency calls (dead certificate batteries, etc.) once the reopening seriously got underway. But of course it hasn't, and there are no signs that it will do so anytime soon.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

I can get 8-12 continuous hours of work in without people getting in the way or sharing the space

I think we all have taken advantage of the long hours after the last show, over the years to get things done. I have a friend that's a Tech for Regal and he has been working a little bit, but mostly sitting at home. Cineworld seems to have very deep pockets as they were well into converting all Regal screens over to Laser Projection even before the pandemic hit us,

[Bruce Cloutier]

These are interesting times for certain. We are still shipping JNIORs but business levels are a fraction of what were normal. I don't have a breakdown but I suspect that the majority of our sales now are to all of the other markets other than cinema. We continue to fully support the Series 3 but, really, they need to be replaced. When this started there was some thought that any ongoing replacement programs for this device would just continue especially now that there would be less risk in affecting a show schedule. The Series 4 are no where near any end of life although they have been out now for a few years. If there is a Series 5 it will likely just involve more processing power and still be a drop-in replacement. Seems that if there were any ongoing replacement programs, those have paused too.

Then we thought that it would be a good time for techs to explore the JNIOR maybe to see what else they can do with it. You know, it has a lot of capability and can do more than one thing at a time. Those tasks too can be completely independent. Oh with a simple electric eye you can count people passing through a door. With inexpensive motion detectors from the security industry you can automate room occupancy checks. Add the temperature sensor and chart projection booth temperatures and even control the exhaust fans. And so on... All of this without disturbing cinema macro processing. But this takes some marketing, podcasts, videos, and all kinds of stuff to sort of get it rolling that we aren't setup to do and aren't really good at.

Our customer support remains free and for the life of the product (even if you bought a used one off eBay). I cannot really sense the market based on the level of support activity. We generally do not have many support issues at any one time. Again there are many from outside of cinema. We do get a few surrounding it seems the reapplication of a replaced Series 3... ugh. You are not bothering us when you contact us. We will always honestly answer your questions and try to be helpful.

But, it would be nice to get things back open. We are loosing money every month now and there is no government subsidy keeping us afloat. We are in the same boat as all of you.

[Marcel Birgelen]

Then we thought that it would be a good time for techs to explore the JNIOR maybe to see what else they can do with it. You know, it has a lot of capability and can do more than one thing at a time. Those tasks too can be completely independent. Oh with a simple electric eye you can count people passing through a door. With inexpensive motion detectors from the security industry you can automate room occupancy checks. Add the temperature sensor and chart projection booth temperatures and even control the exhaust fans. And so on... All of this without disturbing cinema macro processing. But this takes some marketing, podcasts, videos, and all kinds of stuff to sort of get it rolling that we aren't setup to do and aren't really good at.

I'm just thinking out loud... but what about home automation? Most of those "domotics" thingies are abysmally designed products. Many of them only work if they can constantly phone home and many of them have the tendency to randomly stop working.

I've tried some domotics retrofitting at my home, but gave up trying after getting frustrated about the reliability of it all. I vowed to replace it all with PLCs and MODBUS one day, until then, it all remains on "manual control"... Yeah, very retro, but it never really failed me.

[Bruce Cloutier]

I'm just thinking out loud... but what about home automation? Most of those "domotics" thingies are abysmally designed products. Many of them only work if they can constantly phone home and many of them have the tendency to randomly stop working.

So the device is generic. It gets used in a lot of different applications. It has been nearly impossible for us to pick a market and then try to move product there with some marketing. Presently we work entirely by word of mouth. Those here in Cinema have been great! I need to get it into a general electronics catalog (DigiKey, Jameco, etc.) but we cannot compete in price with Arduino and Raspberry Pi. The JNIOR is somewhere on that spectrum for functionality. Damn Amazon won't give us the dreaded "Buy Box" for our listings and can't (or won't bother to) explain why. I am about ready to pull the product from Amazon. They probably don't like the idea that we sell direct (and that is all of your best bet for best pricing BTW).

But I was suggesting that you can find other uses for the JNIORs that you already have in the cinema. Sure we need to move some more. Our survival through this whole thing probably depends on it. But you all have automation systems be it JNIOR, eCNA or Q-SYS that are capable. We were thinking that this "extended intermission" might have been a good time for techs to explore these additional applications. Maybe then you can con, er... offer the additional features to the houses you support and keep busy.

So in my previous post that you quoted I was saying that we had that idea but couldn't really get it rolling. Was kind of reflecting on what we had thought would occur during this shutdown and where we are now.

[Carsten Kurz]

I brought it up more than once - interface to building automation (the Film-Tech DCS does it). There is a huge movement in germany and thoughout europe now: 'Green Cinema'.

[Bruce Cloutier]

The HVAC application is a good one however, the difficulty is in the variety of heating and cooling systems out there, their ages and complexity. While it is an obvious control integration target, it needs to be handled by the HVAC technicians who, naturally, know nothing of cinema. The concern is that if you toggle a relay connected somehow to your air conditioning system too often and in incorrect combination with other states you can (easily) damage a compressor. Well, certainly impact its life if not its efficiency. I should know since before INTEG, c2000, I was VP of Engineering of a fairly well-known small HVAC controls company.

We have been asked to help theaters control their HVAC before. The requesters had no knowledge of their heating and cooling equipment. We have to ask that their heating and cooling company work with us. It ends there.

For modern HVAC systems we could implement BACnet (don't it before) but it is a complex object-oriented protocol. It generally involves certification before acceptance by the industry. The difficult part being the decision as to how to make the generic JNIOR look to the HVAC equipment. Yes, the question is are we "master" or "slave" let along the set of parameters that might be exposed. And, no, removing those words from the dictionary do not right the wrongs of history. The JNIOR being generic would necessarily need to be flexible. HVAC systems looking to integrate with control signal sources look for standard types of devices. It is a case where the complexity of technology takes the control out of the end-user's realm of capability and even the local technician's training. I think you are familiar with that.

The JNIOR can act as a residential style thermostat. I, in fact, for JANOS v2.0 have a note to (potentially) add relay Minimum ON-time and Minimum OFF-time configuration settings that can be used to protect equipment. Of course, there is no guarantee that they would be set correctly for any installation. Part of the complexity is that some of those delays have to relate to the status of other relays. Yes, the JNIOR is ideal since you can write a quick Java application to handle the timing and logic. Maybe I just need to include a manual relay control lockout setting. Because, the issue is really Mr. Happy-Clicker flipping relays from the unit's configuration pages. Maybe, also to prevent interference from another application (Cinema) that should be integrated in this case more carefully.

For like 20 years I have been frustrated that INTEG had not taken an interest in HVAC especially recognizing my background. The ownership was steel industry and newspaper controls oriented. Now that I have since acquired the company we could move in that direction but we have other priorities ahead of something like that (um... especially this year).

Doesn't mean that you can't take a JNIOR and work to get it done. We will support you. Just can't take on the liability in protecting the theater's investment in heating and cooling systems. Probably more the cooling, eh?

[Carsten Kurz]

So, as we do own an ICMP for a while, I was stirred up a bit about this 'premature' battery issue, I checked our bills and we bought our DP2K-6E actually in late 2015, it was delivered early in 2016. We only use it for a few mobile screenings each year, so it's not under constant supervision.

So, last night I changed the battery and performed the ICMP edge connector cleaning as Barco suggested. Also installed the most recent series 2 and ICMP software.

The battery hood sticker said 11/2015, so, as Barco suggests this battery to hold for around 5 years, and to exchange it as soon as possible after 4 years, I guess it was about time. I don't know how far the cert keeping voltage is supported by the DP2K being in standby or during operation - in our case, this machine only runs a two digit number of hours each year, and is not connected to mains in between.

I measured the new cell (2477N) voltage (3.29V) and the old cell voltage (2.84V). I did not see any software nag in Communicator about the cell voltage.

So, at 2.84 volts, there was probably a little bit of time left, but not much. At first I was slightly puzzled, because Barco suggests to use a 2477N, and the original cell was a normal 2477. The N version has a slightly different cell shape with an edge around the positive side (or a recessed negative side). I wasn't sure wether the 2477N would actually fit properly into the cell socket, but, apparently, it did. Sliding in such a thick button cell into the socket is a bit more involved than swapping one of those slim CR2032. It's really a good idea to have the tools ready that Barco suggests for this operation. When I compare the normal CR2477 and the recommended CR2477N, it appears that the coin cell design of the 2477N offers a bit more safety against a short-circuit while inserting or removing the battery.

If I hadn't seen this thread, I don't know when I actually had thought about swapping the battery in this machine. Even after having participated in the various threads about equipment shutdown and battery maintenance threads in the course of the Covid-19 shutdown, I was simply thinking that our Barco was too new to have any battery related issues yet. Time flies...

I also usually assume that the typical recommended 5 years battery swap cycle has quite a bit of safety margin in it. It appears that in the case of the Barco ICMP, there is not much of a safety margin.

https://www.cinionic.com/wp-content/.../InfoT1381.pdf


- Carsten

[Bruce Cloutier]

When I compare the normal CR2477 and the recommended CR2477N, it appears that the coin cell design of the 2477N offers a bit more safety against a short-circuit while inserting or removing the battery.

This is interesting. The Series 3 JNIOR have a battery that is soldered in place. The first issue with that was that the cell would be briefly shorted as the PCB passed through wave soldering. That would clearly drop some life off of the thing. We had wanted those manually soldered in place after discovering that.

I've wondered about insertion into a battery holder. I guess that depends on the battery holder design and the care used to get the cell started into its new home.

There is another risk of shorting that everyone should watch for. A PCB with batteries installed should not be set down on a conductive surface. The reason should be obvious. In the case of the Series 3 the battery pins were generally the first to contact the table/bench. Consider that a lot of electronics are handled around conductive mats. Even a mildly insulating surface can give those electrons a chance for escape. There is only a very limited number of those forced to stay on one side of the cell. When you pull that for ICMP edge cleaning watch that you don't set the board down in an unfortunate location.

Okay, but with JNIOR it is absolutely OK for the battery to go dead. You will not lose anything critical to its operation. I've addressed all of that before. You can change the cells on the Series 4. That would help with debugging if you need to look into anything historical. They last 5-6 years. We don't monitor the voltage (because that wears down the battery). I could probably detect when a battery is dead though and post something to the syslog. But, you know, if your jniorsys.log file starts fresh with each power up then you could pop in a fresh battery. It is not worth the effort to pull batteries on a Series 3 (in my opinion).

I hadn't seen the safety 'N' cells. That is interesting.

Bruce

[Carsten Kurz]

I used a silicone mat, and was paranoid enough to actually do a basic measurement of contact resistance on it. I do have a conductive heat resistive mat for solder work, and I took an extra thought to not make that stupid mistake.

I also measured the voltage of the new cell to make sure I wasn't installing a dead cell.

[Carsten Kurz]

Barco has published a training video on battery swap for the ICMP/-X and the ICP-D. They give an actual number for the minimum battery voltage: 2.7Volts. They also show you how to properly measure the voltage of a battery still on the ICMP/-X and ICP-D.

Bildschirmfoto 2021-02-09 um 15.07.22.png

Barco also explicitly states that the ICMP/-X and ICP-D cert memories are not supported by the projector power supply in on- or standby-state. So, for battery lifetime, it is irrelevant wether the projector/board has seen many or few operation hours.