Connecting Bluray player to NEC2000C / JSD-60

[Chris Daigle]

I'm hoping one of you can help me figure out a sound issue I'm having when hooking up a bluray player to my NEC2000C projector. I'm using a Sony BSD-S3200 bluray player from home as a test unit to see if I can get it to work but I'll purchase a different player if this ends up being the problem. The Sony has HDMI and Digital Coax OUT ports. I purchased an HDMI to DVI connector and proceeded to connect the HDMI out of the bluray player to the DVI input on the projector. Picture looks fine on the screen. I then connected a digital coax cable to the coax IN port on a JSD-60 processor. I can only get sound if I set the Digital Audio Out setting on the Sony to "PCM". (the only other option is AUTO). I do get sound, but not 5.1. There is no center channel and it's like a mono signal coming out equally on the left, right and both surrounds. So then I went and also purchased an HDMI IN to HDMI & Audio Out splitter from Amazon. Proceeded to connect HDMI from the player into this box, came out of this box with an HDMI to the projector which again, the image looks fine. Out of this splitter there are RCA jacks which I tried going into the RCA ports in the back of the JSD and there is also a TOSLINK port which I tried a cable into the TOSLINK port in the back of the JSD as well and in every scenario, I get the same sound issue. No sound at all if the sony Digital Audio Out is set to "AUTO" and a mono-type signal if I set it to PCM. Would this be a problem with the blu ray player I'm using, or are there settings on the JSD-60 that would need to be changed? Or am I missing something else? If it's the player, is there one that you've used that will work in this scenario?

[Dave Macaulay]

Audio is often a problem with BluRay. The "default" audio in the format spec is DTS, almost all discs have DTS multichannel audio. Some also have Dolby Digital or TruAudio. I believe all discs will have linear stereo PCM for the RCA and/or TOSlink optical digital outputs plus maybe analog stereo outputs (analog is now pretty rare on players).
Very few cinema processors decode DTS (maybe the DTS ones...?). Dolby processors (CP750, 850, 950) should decode Dolby Digital. The 850 also decodes TruAudio - not sure about the 950. A TV or home theatre system will have EDID telling the player what it understands and the player should send that... but only via HDMI. This EDID stuff is not present on DVI. So you have to set up the player to ignore audio formats your system doesn't decode. It's common to get audio on the attached trailers but silence on the feature if the audio output is not set up: trailers just have stereo PCM audio as a rule.
You need to set the player (player setup, not a disc menu) to force only linear PCM digital audio output.
This may or may not be actual stereo, if it is it will usually decode to L-C-R-S with your processor set to decode ProLogic matrixing. If you have the nonsync input used set to stereo direct (no decoding), you probably will get just L and R signal. Maybe your disc puts out a mono signal on the stereo output - that should give mostly centre with some left and right through ProLogic.

[Harold Hallikainen]

The JSD-60D includes a DI-84 board that enables decoding of DTS and Dolby Digital. On the JD-60D Windows GUI, under the Global Tab is Unit Status which incidcates whether a DI-84 board is present. If it is, you can choose Active Matrix as the Decode Option on the COAX format to route the encoded audio through this board and get 5.1 audio. See the manual at http://ftp.uslinc.com/Products/JSD-6...l%20160406.pdf

Harold

[Chris Daigle]

Thanks to both of you. I'll look at the JSD-60 tomorrow to see if I have the board and give that a try.

[Chris Daigle]

Knowing my luck I probably will not have this board in my JSD-60 and I'm not sure if I even have the USL install disk that i need to load the GUI on my laptop to check. Would there be any options or different models of bluray player that anyone out there has used that would work without a lot of messing around with hard to find settings? Or, would it be any easier to get 5.1 sound using a Dolby CP650 instead of the JSD60? We do have a couple Dolby units in other auditoriums that I could try, I just have no idea how to proceed. I assume just using the non-sync RCA inputs on the Dolby would just give me 2 channel audio, correct? We're currently using a USL Dax unit to feed the Dolby's from our GDC servers.

[Jim Cassedy]

I assume just using the non-sync RCA inputs on the Dolby would just give me 2 channel audio, correct?

I've been called a couple of times at the last minute to do a couple of "quickie" shows from a blu-ray or DVD player at venues
that were fully set up to do so. In a pinch, you can take the RCA outs from the player and plug them into the "Non-Sync 1"
input on a CP-650, and set the processor to apply Pro-Logic decoding to NS-1. (Format 74 or 75) You can assign either
of these formats to NS-1 by putting the '650' into the programming mode. It can be done from the front panel, and it's fairly
easy to do, even if you haven't done it before. It's in the manual. It's not elegant, but as long as you're not doing a show for
a room full of piano tuners or audio engineers, chances are the audience will find the audio just fine. [ I've done shows
(at Dolby) for "a room full of audio engineers"! Some of those guys can hear sounds & harmonics that nobody else
on the planet can. But that's why they're in business! Doing shows like that, is what 'keeps me on my toes'. LoL ]

[Carsten Kurz]

http://ftp.uslinc.com/Products/JSD-60/Software/GUI/

First check wether that decoding board is present. If you want real surround, that would be the easiest solution. You should also be able to find out wether that board is installed by looking at the full JSD60 model number. At least if the unit was shipped, and not retrofitted with the decoder board. The manual lists the available options and correspondig model number extensions.

Do you know wether the external analog multichannel input is used on this JSD60? (sometimes used to connect a film processor for 35mm showings, like a CP65/DA20, CP650, CP500 etc.). If you buy one of those rare Bluray players with analog multichannel output, that would be the probably the best, as the player will then decode any of todays wide range of surround formats into these analog outputs, and you would never have to think about disc audio formats again. It would need a proprietary cable though (6ch RCA snake to DB25M).

Exactly what server is used with this NC2000C?

[Harold Hallikainen]

A few more things to try:

1. COAX or TOSLINK input to JSD-60 and decode with DI-84 board.

2. Multichannel analog output from the player to the JSD-60 or other processor multichannel analog input

3. Set player to decode and send multichannel (decoded) audio over HDMI to projector, projector output discrete channel AES.

4. Set player to stereo and use "simple matrix" or "active matrix" on the JSD-60 on the NS, TOSLINK, or COAX input.

[Chris Daigle]

Exactly what server is used with this NC2000C?

Carsten, The servers we're using are GDC SX2001's and we are not using the external analog input. I appreciate the advice on trying to find a player with that output option so if all else fails I know I can at least look to see if I can find one that has analog multichannel output. But hopefully the board is present on the JSD as it seems like the cleanest solution and I wouldn't need a splitter box which could potentially add another failure point down the road. I'll check the full model number and hopefully will be able to get into the interface and know for sure tomorrow. We've replaced several Dolby CP650 / DAX combo's over the last few years with JSD-60's so I have a few of each of these processors and not overly picky about which auditorium I get working. And Jim thanks for the CP650 guidance. I'm going to try and program that tomorrow as well as that seems like a pretty simple and reasonable solution too.

[Carsten Kurz]

Alright, so with the SX2001, there is no IMB/IMS, so, no audio decoding from HDMI/DVI. Then follow the other options, I'd say. That 6*RCA to DB25M cable is not too complicated to make. Even though the connection is analog, the sound quality will probably be slightly better than with the internal decoder board, as the decoder will only decode AC3/dts, while on most of todays discs, DTS master or Dolby TrueHD is present and will be decoded to the analog multichannel outs of these players.
Is your budget limited for these Bluray players? We had a thread about recent Denon and Tascam Bluray players which offer serial or network remote control capabilities - these two units do have analog multichannel outs, plus offer some other nice aspects for theatrical use. The US price is somewhere around 400US$. But these are pro players, not consumer units, and they are rack mountable right out of the box.

from here on: http://www.film-tech.com/vbb/forum/m...=2920#post2920

The internal decoder board, though, would also allow to decode surround from other dts/AC3 sources with TOSLINK or S/P-DIF, like streaming boxes, media players, etc.

There are quite a few of these HDMI to analog+toslink 'audio extractor' devices around. At first sight, they look universal, but they still depend on the stream type that the player delivers. Basically, if a suitable stream is on the HDMI, they will only forward it through Toslink, and you end up with the same issue on the JSD60 as if you had connected the player directly to it.

[Marcel Birgelen]

In this case, I'd really go for the 6*RCA to DB25M solution, which really is the most stable option. Otherwise you're dependent on your BluRay player playing exactly the right audio track (AC3 or "plain old" DTS) and your audio-extraction-thingy correctly de-embedding it and putting it onto SP/DIF. Many of those cheaper audio-extractors that do come with analog output do have abysmal DACs on-board and due to the often minimalist design, they also often tend to cross-talk, plus, you'd probably need to go from mini-jack to DB25M... I'd rather trust the DACs on the BluRay player, which usually also have more space, which should also reduce potential cross-talk issues between channels.

[Chris Daigle]

Thanks everyone. You gave me several viable options to get this working and its all greatly appreciated. I'm trying to get this going for a local family with two young kids who's mother was killed in a terrible car accident and we are trying to give them a mini diversion to come in and watch a couple shows. And although we've never had the need to run blurays here,it will be nice to have this option going forward given the current situation with no new product. It appears that I may be in luck as the tags on the back of 3 of my JSD-60's show the model as JSD-60D, so that should indicate that I do have the DI-84 board installed. So now I just have to get the manual out to figure out how to access them with my laptop and make the necessary changes. Hopefully then I can just come out of the bluray player with the digital coax out and into the JSD coax in and change the decode option to active matrix. Typically my Strong service tech would handle all this for me but being closed for 6 months we've paused our contract with them until we get back to "normal" so I'm on my own for now! Sorry for sounding stupid, but can you just plug directly into the unit via usb and access the settings if you aren't sure of the assigned IP or what network the JSD's are on? It didn't seem to see any of the units when I put my laptop on the projector network where I would typically run the NEC communicator.

[Harold Hallikainen]

You SHOULD be able to use the JSD-60 Windows GUI over USB, RS232, or Ethernet. I've sometimes had USB driver issues, so I like Ethernet, but of course, you need to know the IP address of the JSD-60. If you tell the JSD-60 to use Ethernet, it SHOULD give you a list of JSD-60s on the network. But, if not, you can try Ethernet Discoverer ( http://ftp.uslinc.com/Products/Ether...iceDiscoverer/ ) which should find all USL equipment on the network.

Good luck! Let us know how it goes. I'll give whatever help I can (as will others!), but I don't have a JSD-60 here anymore.

Harold

[Chris Daigle]

Good luck! Let us know how it goes. I'll give whatever help I can (as will others!), but I don't have a JSD-60 here anymore.
Harold

Harold, thank you so much for your advice on the JSD. I set the digital coax to Active Matrix and it now sounds really good. No more 2 channel output. So if anyone needs to run a bluray in a pinch and you have a player with both HDMI and Digital Coax Out along with a JSD processor, its a 5 minute job to set it up. And thanks to all of you for the other guidance about setting up the CP650's as well as advice on other bluray player options that would work. I also got the sound to work through the CP650 (although it doesn't sound nearly as good as the JSD, but would be OK in an emergency)!

[Marcel Birgelen]

Thanks everyone. You gave me several viable options to get this working and its all greatly appreciated.

One option that hasn't yet been discussed in this topic (of I'm just getting blind), is the option to create an actual DCP from a Blu-Ray. You can do this with a tool like MakeMKV and DCP-o-Matic.

Keep in mind that this does take a fair bit of preparation, but once you've got the features from your BluRay made into a DCP, they behave just like any other (unencrypted) DCP.