Looking for advice on replacing LMS/TMS

[Chris Daigle]

We've been using the Cinedigm/Hollywood Software LMS system since we converted to digital. The time has come where we unfortunately have to replace our current server and are trying to decide whether to stick with Hollywood Software or go with the GDC TMS. We are an 8 screen plex and all of our servers are GDC's so I'm not sure if that makes a difference. The biggest plus for us to continue with Hollywood Software is our familiarity with it, so there won't be any retraining for staff etc. But for those who have used both, are there any big advantages that one has over the other? Do they both get the job done and it's a matter of what you're comfortable with? We're trying to decide if it's worth learning a new system or just sticking with what we know and I know this group will give me some useful feedback.

[Dave Macaulay]

We installed only two GDC TMS systems, both with Enterprise Storage RAID units. Both customers became so frustrated with them that they just turned them off and ran the screen servers manually.
I could say more, but not anything positive except that GDC support was always very helpful (but needed way too often).
If you understand and like the Hollywood system and have been happy with it, probably stick with it. Look into a used server, there are usually quite a few available. Why is yours no longer usable?

[Steve Guttag]

We've put in both and maintain both. They are different. There is much more expected of the user to use the GDC software. Mind you GDC is constantly working on it so features do come over time. With the TCC, you set up your templates, get your POS integration and really, the end-user's work boils down to title mapping and choosing trailers/ads. The TCC takes care of the rest and if you move a movie between houses, the TCC does an excellent job of moving everything for you. The TCC is also really good at you picking the start time based on ads, trailers, feature...whatever and then starting early enough to make that happen.

With the GDC software, there is more manual intervention involved on everything. It does some of those things to a degree but you are creating the SPLs rather than being template based. It can do the "start at first trailer" thing but it seems that most of our customers don't use that and just manually figure how early to start things...which tells me it isn't rock solid.

Both "Dashboards" are good at showing the show in progress. While the GDC dashboard gives a lot of screen detail of the show in progress, the TCC shows MUCH more of an overview at a glance. You know not only the status of shows in progress in much less space, but you know this week's status, next week's status and are given MUCH more warning of pending problems (lack of keys, content/mapping).

There is no question, the TCC is more of a full-featured, and more automated system and it has a yearly cost to match. The GDC system is lower cost on day-1 (which you've already paid for the TCC) and it is much cheaper year to year.

The TCC as you presently know it has had its last update with 3.5.3.0 patch 12. TCC 4.0 is out and they are changing the name to ACE 4.0. They are more than related but a key difference is ACE is web based. So you use a web browser. They definitely haven't ported all of the TCC features over to it yet but they are working on it and it has many of the familiar things and someone coming from the TCC will likely adapt pretty quickly but with phrases like "why did they change that? The old way worked better or was easier." But that's software and also showing differences between a purpose built program versus what can be done via web apps. The set up the menu structure better on ACE in that you sort of work left to right and step you through what a typical work flow is rather than jumping around. It also has better AI when it comes to title mapping. That is, if you have a movie titled Top Gun on your POS and you ingest a movie that has Top Gun in the name...it already is setting those up to be mapped (you can override it, of course but it is saving a step). It also only shows you the versions that your site can handle (sound, language, open/closed captions...etc.) So, if you don't have DBOX or ATMOS and those are version files, it doesn't clutter the selections with them. And, it will map all of the versions you support so 5.1 and 7.1 are automatically assigned to the same title.

Another thing with ACE is you have options on the whole server thing. It can run natively on Windows Server (all of the way up to 2019) or Linux (via Umbuntu). However, you can also set it up as a cloud based TMS where all you have on site is the storage (LMS) and a basic computer to handle the UI. So even if the internet goes flaky on you, the site doesn't shut down. It is probably worth checking with Comscore (Hollywood Software) to see if either the TCC or ACE would be a good fit for you. Also, if you don't want to set up a new TMS computer and equipment right, I do recommend Strong. They build their systems based on Dell servers and will have it pretty much plug-n-play for you and cost a lot less than the "InSight" system that you are probably replacing (e.g. IBM based server). Heck, they probably have a package to merely replace the aged components and leave as much infrastructure in place as possible (they can set up TMS/LMS systems for either the TCC or GDC so they arrive ready to use).

[Leo Enticknap]

Does the Dolby TMS now support GDC screen servers? I know that they added support for the Barco ICMP, but can't remember if they did for GDCs as well.

[Steve Guttag]

I don't think the Dolby TMS supports GDC...Despite it looking promising, I have a hard time recommending a "dead man walking" piece of software. You can still buy it but there is no software development on it, at this point. It seems to be in a state of limbo. I would want whatever TMS software I went with to support as many servers and projectors as possible. CineDigital is one we've been looking at, based on the recommendations from those that I have used it here on Film-Tech as a low-cost alternative to the likes of the TCC. GDC's TMS seems to also be pretty much all-inclusive so people should look at it, even if they are not running GDC servers. In fact, I know one company that had all Christie IMB-S2s (via Solaria 1s and "packages") but used a GDC TMS.

[Gordon McLeod]

CineDigital has been very stable for us

[Pete Naples]

What Gordon said.

Or ScreenWriter, bit more costly though.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

Cinegidm is a lot more automatic than GDC although on GDC's you can now schedule your transfer as well. I installed a half dozen Cinedigm's and about 50 GDC systems. My GDC systems were somewhat based on the Cinedigm layout and IP config, sans secured network switches.This way all my customers were on a level playing field as far as IP config. IMHO the Cinedigm took a lot more training for new employees than the GDC did. Many could walk up to the GDC and after 15 or 20 minutes actually start using it, having mostly figured it out on their own. The down side of GDC... It uses Filezilla as it's transfer agent. Not that it's bad, it works great and I have had up to 8 films moving at once through it.... but every once in a blue moon it accidentally gets shut down and no transfers happen. You can either restart it manually or reboot the server, even most distribution companies know about this issue. As for servers, I used all Dell servers. I thought the Cinedigm supplied IBM stuff was garbage. And Carly Fiorina has all but ruined H-P.

[Ioannis Syrogiannis]

CineDigital has been very stable for us

On the other hand, we -running it on a PC, not dedicated but nothing more than a browser is running in parallel- had more than once database corruptions (I learned from the first time round to keep a back-up on that and I do every other week).
Quite a few times (FTP) file transfers that are either manually triggered or scheduled fail right on the beginning. Pulling from the cinema servers did the job, but a problem all the same, especially for scheduled transfers.
And on occasion, we had freezings that would practically call for a hard reboot.
I blame the java, windows, network combination for those.
I don't have much more experience than "Unique"'s solution (Rosetta Bridge), but both cost and experience are not comparable.

[Pete Naples]

Ioannis,

That's wierd. We have a few PC based installations. One is used as the tech general PC.

Zero issues.

Have you raised it with CDM? They are pretty helpful.

[Ioannis Syrogiannis]

They are indeed helpful.
Though, I haven't yet figured out what trigger those unresponsivenesses. Yet, they happen with the TMS running.
They suggested it might be drive corruption, protection software or bad shutdown (file/drive corruption) and said that trying on another computer could be the solution. If there is one thing we learned with digital projection, with computers, one plus one doesn't always makes two.
I don't have any reason to doubt that the issue is unique or really rare. But I was curious about anyone else facing such issues. I mentioned it on a French projectionist's forum, once, without anyone stepping out and sharing the same experience.

Anyway, I have the feeling that I am derailing the thread and that's not helpful to the original poster.

P.S. The linux version of CineDigital features daily backups

[Shibu Paul]

Final word of TMS is AAM Screenwriter, the only one fully automated .

[Lucas Iaccarino]

Hello!
Anyone knows the System requirements for AAM ScreenWriter? And how much it cost per screen? It´s only a yearly fee or can be adquire?

Thanks

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

We installed only two GDC TMS systems, both with Enterprise Storage RAID units. Both customers became so frustrated with them that they just turned them off and ran the screen servers manually.
I could say more, but not anything positive except that GDC support was always very helpful (but needed way too often).
If you understand and like the Hollywood system and have been happy with it, probably stick with it. Look into a used server, there are usually quite a few available. Why is yours no longer usable?

I built and sold 40+ GDC based LMS systems starting back when it began with the release of Series 2 gear 12 years ago. I can't say enough good about them as they just keep running and running and only get updates twice yearly. The customers that have them can't live without them, and many do all show scheduling from home offices rather than in the theater. All are still running on Dell servers and with Windows 7 Pro, although that is slowly going to have to change. As for the GDC storage servers that work with their SR-1000 IMB servers, I have zero experience with them. Although the IMB servers are quite good. The 2TB of storage on them works really well. Since they can also work with the GDC LMS, I doubt I would ever go with their storage server. I would be interested in knowing more as to specific problems your customers had with them. The GDC takes a lot of CPU power to move content.... so if you have a minimal CPU(s), that can cause slowing issues when moving content between multiple screens at the same time.

[Dave Macaulay]

Mark:
These were both at provincial government film rating services. As can be imagined these have to ingest a LOT of DCPs, they had to screen and rate every movie before it could play in the province. They bought the recommended Dell servers and the GDC "Enterprise Storage". One used Barco ICMP servers, the other had Doremi. One issue was that these sites used the projector to show both DVD or PC based links from distributors and DCP content. DCP content was ingested and playlisted by trained staff but the screeners set up the DVD and PC link contents from their desk in the screening room: they were not trained and were not able to access the TMS room. The GDC TMS could not use the server's built-in black, it assembles playlists using its own black MOS clips as you know. A Barco ICMP in HDMI mode will not play a normal playlist: to play a playlist if the server is in HDMI input mode you must insert an internal black section as the first playlist element and attach a cue to switch to server input. The GDC TMS absolutely could not use the ICMP internal black so switching to DCP playback could not be automatic.
That's operational, no big deal, a workaround was found - but the way their workflow was planned did not anticipate this limitation.
The real problem was the "Enterprise Storage" RAIDs kept disappearing. I believe you mentioned in another thread (I think it was about a content downloader) that the GDC TMS does have things disappear now and then? Well these sure did. Once the storage box is missing from the TMS all the already loaded content also disappears. And content being ingested goes to the OS drive which fills up pretty fast. That happened so often - with many attempts by GDC to fix it (and failing) - that both sites just shut their TMS off and used the servers directly. Both review boards have since been eliminated, so nothing more to say about them.
We do use the GDC TMS in some commercial cinemas but they are only used for scheduling (using schedule data from Vista) and have no local RAID. These have been working OK with a few hiccups now and then ... but other sites with Dolby/Doremi TMS systems (used for all ingests with large RAID storage units attached) have been almost totally trouble free although admittedly they are used with 100% Doremi servers.