Christie CP2210 Channel settings

[Ian Garland]

Tonight we ran the start of a show from DCPs changing to Blu-ray for the main content. Not something we usually do. When the projector switched over to the preset for the blu-ray player nothing on screen but flashing graphics colours. When this has happened before the cure has always been to unplug the HDMI cable wait a beat then re-plug but not this time. Chain is Blu-ray player (Denon BD500) into Pioneer AV amp (SC-LX59) feeding CP2210 DVI A from the main output and a monitor on one of the secondary outs. In desperation I looked at the channel set up and fiddled and it came to life.

So the question is what would be the best way of making this a reliable setup given that we may well have to do this more frequently. Are there recommended channel settings? Or is it just better to do the MKV / DCP-O-Matic faff ?

[Marco Giustini]

HDMI will never be as reliable as a DCP. I'd say that you test in advance and also turn on the projector first and the BD last so the BD can do a proper handshake with the HDMI receiver inside the projector.
In theory unplugging and replugging should have fixed it - but I would wait more than a beat, both devices must realise the link is lost and do a full handshake.

Also disable all gimmicky options in the BD player - like ability to control the TV via HDMI and, I believe, Deep Colour.

[Ian Garland]

Totally agree. Thing is I did test it all. PJ on then receiver then BD player and lined up the start of disk, then ran the pre show pressing play at the point of channel switch and all worked fine. Sat there for about 40 minutes before start of show.

Do you think 10 seconds is enough time for the handshake or should I have waited longer.

Will look at the settings on the BD player, don't think there is any TV control but not sure about Deep Colour.

[Carsten Kurz]

I understand a monitor was hooked up to the AV receiver secondary output - was that showing a proper picture?

- Carsten

[Marco Giustini]

I didn't notice that you're driving two monitors from the AV receiver. It's just one of those setups which "should work" but one day you power it up and it refuses to work. My own home system sometimes fails to initialise the audio and the whole chain needs to be power cycled. It's intrinsic in HDMI IMHO.

To reduce quirkiness, I recommend you plugged the BD player directly in the projector and then you feed sound via optical or coaxial to the AV receiver. The issue with splitting the signal is called EDID. When a source is plugged into something, it asks the device "who are you and what do you support". The device - i.e. a television - responds with its EDID such as "1080p, 24Hz, 5.1 sound" etc. The moment you add a second device on the chain, there's where the issues can happen. Good (expensive) professional matrix will perform an independent handshake - that is, each device will negotiate the signal WITH THE MATRIX and not with the source. Also, on a professional matrix, the EDID can be set manually so the installer can tell the connected device what to do. For example, you can set the Matrix to tell every connected device that only 1080p is supported so a 4K TV won't upset the whole setup.
I do not know how your AVR behaves but usually this is the issue with splitting the signal.

I am not saying your setup won't work or it's incorrect. Just that it's can and will give you headaches - and even when connecting directly you may end up with issues!

Yes, 10 seconds should be enough. Maybe it was not the AVR-Projector to have handshaking issues but the BD-AVR? Hard to say - but Carsten made a good point.

[Christian Hove]

I experience similar problems with our CP2220s and PCs, but only very rarely. Usually it is enough to change channel on the projector to input from the 292 connection and back to the DVI to get the picture through.
I have considered to install an EDID emulator, but given that the problem is difficult to reproduce, it is hard to say if it solves the problem.
In almost all cases of screening DVD/BD I convert it to a DCP beforehand - Yes it is more work, but in my mind it is worth the time to get predictable screenings and peace of mind.

[Ian Garland]

Carsten - Yes the monitor displayed correctly.

Marco - I did try that and power cycled the BD player but no joy. The reason the AVR is there is as a cheap Matrix to switch between Sat, BD, PC and usually it behaves well but I appreciate it does not have the facility of a pro Matrix switcher/scaler.

The thing is that the BD set up is used twice a month by a film society and works fine but they only play BD/DVD and don't switch projector channels which is why I am wondering if there is something in my channel settings that could be off.

As Christian says I probably should go the more reliable route of keeping everything DCP and doing the conversion.

Thanks for all the advice so far.

[Carsten Kurz]

I think Christie has some special issues with their DVI/EDID interface. As far as I know, all current Christies allow to switch between two different EDID sets, you may want to check this.

Wether in this case it is the Christie, or the AVR...
If you change or add devices, the problem may go away, or become worse, or different. Maybe it's better to wait for it to happen again and then find a work around that works. Like unplugging a specific cable, power cycle a specific device, etc. In general, at least for straight setups, I prefer devices to be on a static config - e.g. fixed output resolution, colorspace, color depth, etc., so, I disable all auto negotiations. However, in a more complicated setup like yours, with an AVR in between, it may actually be better to allow devices to sort it out automatically. Or not...
Whatever - if an audience is waiting, it is absolutely necessary to find a workaround that get's you going in as little time as possible. So, have a workaround to bypass the AVR, etc.
Yes, HDMI is no fun...fortunately, we use a setup that causes no issues for us, but, I guess we were just lucky with our Sony and Datasat AP20.

In general, of course it is always better to create a DCP from a disc, but, I understand for single showings, this may just be too complicated.
With todays rather cheap AMD Threadrippers or Ryzen 9 CPUs, you can build a low cost system that is able to convert a disc to a DCP faster than disc playtime. That is, around or below 2hrs.

- Carsten

[Marcel Birgelen]

Whatever - if an audience is waiting, it is absolutely necessary to find a workaround that get's you going in as little time as possible. So, have a workaround to bypass the AVR, etc.
Yes, HDMI is no fun...fortunately, we use a setup that causes no issues for us, but, I guess we were just lucky with our Sony and Datasat AP20.

I can confirm that the AP20 is mostly worry-free. Don't know about the updated AP25, but I guess they did their fair share of testing. But as a general rule of thumb, I never loop the video through an AVR. I either use the analog audio out, a secondary HDMI or a splitter like the HD Fury Vertex to avoid running this kind of loop. I've had my fair share of problems with all kinds of connectors and commercial AVRs.

I'm also fan of creating a DCP instead of using a Blu-Ray player whenever possible. Modern hardware has made the process pretty fast, but it certainly still requires a bit of preparation and quality testing.

[Christian Hove]

I've had loads of HDMI related problems with the Datasat AP20 - Christie CP2220 combination with the most recent AP20 HSR firmware (44.45.9 contained in SW 1.05.09). Basically the EDID negotiation stopped working correctly after updating to the newest HSR FW, causing low resolution.
Together with Datasat support I have found that SW 1.05.09 and HSR FW 44.43.17 (contained in SW 1.05.02) gives me the best performance. However I do experience problems getting surround sound from a Chromecast playing Netflix or Youtube. I do not know if this is specific to the AP20-CP2220 combination or a general Chromecast-AP20 issue.
@Carsten: Have you tried Chromecast->AP20 with surround sound?

[Marcel Birgelen]

I haven't tried Chromecast on the AP20, but I have used an NVIDIA Shield in combination with Netflix and an AP20 for some private showings in the past, without any real problems. The surround sound was working, as it was encoded as multi-channel LPCM by the Shield. Controlling surround sound and any other playback options of Netflix is a bit of a dodgy business and I generally don't like using Netflix for any professional presentation, as you can't really download their content in advance. You also don't have any bandwidth guarantee, so if your internet connection takes a dump during the presentation, you may either be stuck with some low-grade playback quality or no content at all.

I have just limited experience with YouTube, but last time I checked, they didn't even support surround sound. Maybe their subscription tiers do offer surround sound on specific devices with specific videos? What I do know though, is that any surround sound in movies you upload to their platform tends to get lost, at least the last time I tried this a few months ago.