Q-SYS Corner

[Steve Guttag]

I can believe it. Dolby doesn't like to play with others well. If their stuff works with each other, mission accomplished. If it works with others...it's a bonus. That isn't to say that Dolby won't try to work with others but that definitely isn't their focus.

[Marcel Birgelen]

It would help if Dolby would make their stuff fully AES67 compliant and not just in a very specific Dolby-kind-of-way. If they'd to that, then they'd play nice or at least nicer with others, without even having to actively work with them on making it happen.

[Steve Guttag]

Agreed! Not working with IGMP or following a different PTP clock is silly. Heck, a site should be able to put in a dedicated PTP clock and have everything track to that. But my experience has been that when Dolby has to play with others on AES67...it is marginal, at best. For Dolby Atmos, QSYS has dedicated Atmos receivers that are specifically designed to work with Dolby's AES67 feed. However, when it comes to working with, say, their DMA amplifiers...it sorta works. I wonder if I could convince Q-SYS to make dedicated AES67 transmitters to work with their amplifiers. I doubt it because Q-SYS wants you to use their CX-Q amplifiers...which I get. In fact, I found out about the DMA problem because I couldn't get CX-Q amps in time for a theatre opening (supply chain issues). That said, I don't need 50 some amplifier channels with analog inputs that we're having to pay for either. The DMA can be a more cost-effective alternative.

[Harold Hallikainen]

Does the CP950 lock to the AES3 coming from the media block? If there is a separate PTP source, can everything, including the media block, lock to it? Back in the old analog television days, everything would "gen lock" to a sync source so you could switch smoothly between sources. Unless everything is on the same clock, it seems like there has to be sample rate converters in there somewhere to deal with the ever so slight difference in sample rates between different pieces of equipment. The USL sound processors have sample rate converters on all the AES3 inputs so the DSP would not have to try to follow the incoming sample rate. So, can a projector/server/media block sync to a PTP source? Does it need to?

[Steve Guttag]

The CP950 does lock to the AES3 inputs (though I don't know if they do it by pair or look at pair 1 (L/R) only). On their web ui, they show the locking on each pair with a virtual LED.

[Harold Hallikainen]

Thanks! So, it appears the server/media block is the master clock for the entire system, at least when AES3 audio is being played. And, I guess also when IAB is being played since the sync signal is carried as FSK on an AES3 output. Of course, I expect all the pairs to be at the same sampling frequency, but they MAY not all be precisely phased together. I think that was the cause of "robosound" on a previous processor (CP650?). USL made an inline sample rate converter to, ideally, fix that. So, unless the server/media block can be synced to an external PTP server, I think it makes sense for the CP950/850 to be the master clock of the network audio since it is passing through the clocking of the server/media block. Projectors CAN be synchonized using SMPTE 12 timecode, but, I believe, that is only frame accurate, not audio sample accurate (and why we have the FSK and binary sync protocols on AES3 for external IAB rendering systems).

[Steve Guttag]

There are problems using the CP950A or IMS3000 as the PTP clock...first off, those products have their own boot cycles and can cause the rest of the AES67 system have to jump to a different GM. If one has multiple Atmos/IAB theatres, you now have to have multiple networks (or domains, really) so since they all have to have their own clock rather than having a single GM that could be more stable for the complex.

With an IMS3000, since the rendering is done on-board, no external AES3 sync is needed...just the AES67 stream is used. I run AES3 as well for backup reasons (as well as handling 2.0 sound formatting that vidiots (and advertising provide). With AES67 it is a single cable/network so the DCIO-H with redundant networking, plus the AES3 audio is far more robust a system so a premium theatre never goes down. When I've used the CP950A, I used a passive AES3 splitter to feed the AES3 to both the CP950A and the DCIO-H.

[Steve Guttag]

Q-SYS For Cinema

Blog 1 What is Q-SYS?

[Part 1]

Introduction

I am hoping to create a set of, relatively, short blogs on the subject of implementing the Q-SYS platform/ecosystem within the commercial cinema environment. With Q-SYS folding the cinema division into the regular A/V “Systems” division, there is no longer cinema-specific entities within Q-SYS to guide the cinema industry on its benefits and varied uses. I’m hoping that these blogs will bridge that gap a bit as I think Q-SYS can be a powerful tool for the cinema industry.
Since this is the first, this one might be a bit longer as there is more to cover with respect to introducing just what Q-SYS is and what it can do (for cinema). I do not intend for these blogs to be all inclusive and they will definitely have a cinema specific ideology behind them.

Disclosure

I do not, in any way, work for QSC/Q-SYS. These thoughts are my own based on my own interactions with the product(s) and implementing Q-SYS within actual cinema environments. I do work for a dealer that has sold QSC products since the 1980s, including Q-SYS and its predecessors. For the purposes of this blog, I represent only myself and not my employer(s) or any other company. What is Q-SYS?

What will likely be a reoccurring theme within these blogs is that it is almost always best to view Q-SYS in the more general terms and work one’s way to the specifics. So, here we go.
In general terms (and as of this writing since Q-SYS is a platform that can evolve), Q-SYS is a DSP (Digital Signal Processing) platform that involves or works with:

• Audio
• Control
• Video

Within those general terms you can get a lot of subdivisions. For instance, within Audio, you can have analog, digital, streaming, level control, equalization, compression, routing, feedback suppression, echo cancellation, amplification…etc. You get the idea, there are lots of ways one can work with audio and Q-SYS can do quite a few. The same sort of breakdowns into subdivisions can be done for Control (not just of Q-SYS itself but of most anything else you could want to control) and Video.
I think most cinema people will, at least at first, think of Q-SYS for its original entrance into the industry…for Audio. This is especially true since QSC’s interaction with cinema has, historically, been with audio. But, trust me, Q-SYS’ control aspect is every bit as powerful and potentially beneficial in the cinema environment as it can do most anything an automation system can do and then some. Its video aspects are, comparatively, new but if your theatre is thinking about doing zoom/team room rentals, then how about a system where you can plug in a host laptop for the Zoom call and then have the ability to pass video and audio to the far-end, put the picture up on the screen and control what sound goes where? Having a platform like Q-SYS that handles Audio, Control and Video can make this happen. How does Q-SYS work?

Q-SYS falls under the general field of AVoIT (Audio Visual over Information Technology). What this essentially means is that it uses “standard” IT infrastructure like CAT5e (or better) copper cables (or fiber for longer distances and/or higher bandwidth) and network switches. As such, it is relatively low-cost, with respect to installation infrastructure.
Because we are moving audio (and video) over this infrastructure, there are some minimum requirements to ensure it all works. That is, we don’t want any audible glitches in the sound (or video) so a simple network switch will, likely, not be sufficient. As an example, within cinema, most techs familiar with NTP for keeping our servers and other devices locked into the correct time. However, while having shows start at the right second/minute is sufficient, that level of precision is not sufficient for moving audio or video around a network. With Q-SYS, we use PTP or Precision Time Protocol. PTP is accurate to less than a microsecond. We also need to ensure that audio and video information transverses the network at a higher priority than other network traffic, so there are specific minimum requirements for the network infrastructure. They are not as onerous as it may first appear and they will become less-and-less special as the inherent speed and capabilities of IT equipment evolve. This will be discussed in a different blog post. Suffice to say, you just need CAT5e/CAT6 cables (or fiber) and managed network switches (with specific configuration capabilities) to connect most anything in the Q-SYS world up.

What is required for a Q-SYS system?

A Q-SYS system consists of, at least, a Core, which is the DSP processor that makes the system work. At its most basic, that may be all one needs, particularly if one just wants to use Q-SYS for control (like an automation system (e.g. JNIOR or eCNA) or in lieu of a dedicated control system like AMX or Crestron). Furthermore, some Cores, have various forms of analog audio, digital audio, video and/or control built into them.
Everything else can, loosely, be termed a “peripheral.” A peripheral can be anything either made by Q-SYS (i.e., CX-Q8K8 amplifier or DCIO-H) or 3^rd party manufacturer (e.g., a Dolby Atmos^® processor/server). Natively, Q-SYS works with AES67 audio streams and, with suitable licenses, Dante^®_. For other audio, a suitable input or output interface will be needed to put the audio on the QLAN network(s), or get it off of the QLAN network(s).
In cinemas, the DCIO (or the DCIO-H for decoding of HDMI audio sources), is the primary digital cinema interface as it has 16-channels of AES3 inputs on familiar RJ45 connectors, just like dedicated cinema processors. It has analog audio inputs for Non-Sync, and a Microphone, as well as analog outputs for HI (Hearing Impaired), VI-N (Visually Impaired-Narrative). Additionally, it has both line and speaker level booth monitor outputs. A later blog post will go into the DCIO family in more detail but you should notice that it covers a lot of the typical needs of a cinema installation.
It is not required to have a DCIO to use Q-SYS in cinemas. It is possible use an upstream sound processor and feed its outputs into Q-SYS via analog, or digital audio, using suitable I/O within the Q-SYS family. It is also possible, for those servers that can output AES67 audio, to feed that audio into Q-SYS directly via the same network used for the rest of the QLAN network. This is done for Dolby Atmos^® systems that also utilize Q-SYS.
Likewise, for outputs, one does not have to use Q-SYS amplifiers (e.g., CX-Q series). One can use amplifiers that work with AES67 or Dante^® digitally or conventional amplifiers using analog, with suitable analog outputs from the Q-SYS platform. For example, the Core 110f v2 has up to 16 analog outputs available (and 8-16 analog inputs). 8 of the Core 110f’s audio I/O are “flex” audio. This means that they can be configured to be outputs or inputs. So, the system can be tailored to the needs of the installation.
To summarize, just like with any other sound system, you need:

• A means to get the sound in.
• A means to get the sound out.
• A Core to process the sound.

Additionally, you need a suitable network switch to connect the various components.

How does the user interact with Q-SYS?

Most commonly, the designer/installer creates “User Control Interfaces” (UCIs). Traditionally, these show up on touchpanels. Which functions and displays that show up on the UCI is entirely up to the installer of the system. Furthermore, different UCIs can be created for different users, with different accesses.
But, even more basic, the DCIO has a fader knob and a mute button (more on those in a later blog). Perhaps, that is all that is needed near the projector (if even that is needed) because it may be more convenient, particularly if the projector is remote-mounted, to locate the controls more centrally, wirelessly (including on tablets or phones) are just via browser access.
One could even take a more “traditional” approach and provide pushbuttons to select formats (there are General Purpose Inputs (GPI) on the DCIO) or using peripherals to provide lighted buttons. It is really up to the installer and the needs of the particular cinema.

Why Q-SYS?

So, why use Q-SYS in cinemas? In one word, flexibility. Q-SYS can be the processor that you’ve always wanted and become the processor you desire. You can also get a great degree of uniformity within a chain by coming up with your own custom UCIs that best reflect your needs…including as they evolve.

Traditional Cinema Processors

The traditional cinema processor (anybody’s) is a purpose-built product that will do whatever the designers wanted it to do (and in the way that they wanted it to behave) and that’s it. At some point, its design has to be frozen so that they can actually make it. For that, you, often, get a cost-effective product that does a specific thing. So, if all you need is a 5.1 or 7.1 cinema processor with graphic EQ (and some have varying degrees of parametric EQ, now), then products like (as of this writing) the Dolby CP950, Trinnov OV2, and QSC’s DPM-300 might very well be all you need for a cost-effective solution (this is not an all-inclusive list but these are the popular units that I see most often). They each can bring different features to the table too.

Hybrid Cinema Processors

There is another candidate that has been around a bit and has a fan base too…the Datasat AP25 (and its predecessor the AP20). This is sort of a hybrid processor in that it also has a bit of control functionality plus an HDMI (1.3) video switcher with DTS^® and Dolby^® decoding capabilities. Heck, it even has an optional film audio preamp board for those still supporting film. They have option cards/slots to adapt it to various needs, as well.

[End part 1]

[Steve Guttag]

[Part 2]

Q-SYS

And then there’s Q-SYS. Q-SYS is always “right-sized” because you can choose your processing power, input/output/control capabilities plus it has a the most customizable user interface. Furthermore, if your needs change, you only need to change the part of the system that needs to be changed. For instance, you can get a larger/more powerful Core but leave the existing input/output right where they are. If you need to support an additional device…you just add it. You don’t need to replace the entire system, as with most conventional purpose-built processors.
When it comes to cinema audio, Q-SYS offers a more holistic approach. If you have a preferred speaker, if it is a QSC brand, there are “intrinsic correction” components, which covers both the speaker EQ as well as the speaker protection, built in. If you like other brands of speakers, no problem, as Q-SYS provides for custom voicing as well as custom speaker components to apply the voicing/speaker protection to them as well. And, what’s even more cool, you don’t have to enter parameters for each channel. One voicing component can cover all instances of that speaker within the design. This allows for a very uniform tuning (that, in no way precludes channel-by-channel tuning within the auditorium) that will also have superior imaging as all like speakers will have the same parameters applied to a greater degree than typical crossover settings.
Likewise, you can use other brands of amplifiers, Many companies make Q-SYS plugins to make the integration easier and provide some of the benefits of Q-SYS native amplifiers.
Furthermore, unlike the other cinema processors, not only can Q-SYS be installed in a traditional manner of one processor (Core) per screen (with or without a redundant/backup Core), or you can have two or more screens handled by a single Core!
Now wait, I know what you all are thinking…there is no way I’m going to trust one processor to handle more than one theatre for fear of going down on more than one screen (or the entire complex) due to a processor failure. We’ve ALL had equipment failures, including sound processors. However, while some sound processors have backup power supplies, none of the others have the capability of a completely redundant processor that will automatically switch over if the primary processor gets into trouble (the backup processor is perpetually checking the primary unit).
So, to go down, you’d need two simultaneous failures of both Cores. In a traditional system, if theatre 1 goes down due to a processor failure, theatre 2 can’t help out. In a centralized Q-SYS system, neither theatre goes down because only one Core has to be functional and they perpetually check each other.
And, since the connectivity of the system is by conventional networking, they also offer redundant networking too on most components that would apply to cinemas (The Core, DCIO, amplifiers) so even the network can be 100% backed up. It is a robust system.

Conclusion

Future blog posts will try to look into various aspects of Q-SYS from design and configuration to actual use-cases to specific equipment within cinema.
I hope to not cover too much ground that has already been covered by Q-SYS already has done in their excellent collection of training videos about Q-SYS. In fact, there is a course called Q-SYS Level-1 Cinema Training. I highly encourage the reader to avail themselves of this course. Q-SYS requires a successful completion of this on-line course before they are allowed to install Q-SYS (you need to know how to speak the language and just where everything is or every tech-support call will start with very basic stuff).
Q-SYS Level-1 Cinema Training can be found here:
https://training.qsc.com/mod/book/view.php?id=871
Note, if you are not registered, there is a link in the upper-right hand of the web-page for the training that will allow you to register. You must register to attain level-1 certification but you do not need to register to view the videos.

[Leo Enticknap]

A new version of the "official" IMS3000 plugin, version 1.1.0.0, is out, and available in Asset Manager:

Dolby IMS3000 v1.1.0.0

Release Notes:

• Reduced device polling to less than 2 requests per second.
• Poll rate property added. Set polling cycles to occur between every second and once per 600 seconds.
• Adds Audio fader and mute for internal cp950 control.
• Adds Playback State indicator LEDs.
• Adds position progress bars for SPL and CPL.
• Adds pins for seconds (integer) of current duration and position of composition and show playback.
• Macro parsing now uses configuration files for improved stability.
• Increase maximum macro slots to 1000.
• Adds Retain Macro Status property. This sets the number of minutes the plugin macro status is retained after execution.
• Adds support for IMS3000 that use a remote file server for playback.
• Plugin will now correctly clear current and next schedule if there are no future schedules.
• Fixed Seek button behavior to move the timeline 60 seconds within the current composition, per 500ms the button is pressed.
• Improved TX debugging.
• No CPL selected will now clear the lock status on the content page.
• Adds a fix for Current CPL position rounding error at end of CPL.
• Ingest listbox now removes unnecessary data and renders less frequently.
• Ingest progress is now always targeted at the currently active ingest and does not require selecting from the list.
• Follow mode added to ingest pane. The Ingest listbox will maintain selection of the current task when set to true.

[Steve Guttag]

Yeah...I just started playing with the new version. There are all welcomed improvements. However...
This is what I've noted, thus far:

• Playback Status LEDs do not track when first starting Q-SYS. I haven't isolated what sequence of events gets them to start tracking so you start off with all of them off, even after the show starts.
• I'm not having any luck on the plugin getting a Macro list (tried on two different sites...one has a crap-ton of macros...the other has a more "typical" amount).
• Audio Fader...they forgot the display...so, you get a slider, no digits. Whoops!
• Audio Fader...its output pin outputs in a 0.0-10.0 fashion...implying one has to do their own linear to dB conversion if it is to be integrated within a Q-SYS gain control. Also, with the polling reduced to 2 seconds (or longer), the fader update will feel laggy.
• Manual/Scheduled buttons do not work properly on UCI-Viewer...they're fine QDS (even on a UCI page). Those are the only buttons I've found the problem with.
• Ingest progress bar stops when the Ingest status stops. And, since polling is at 2-seconds or longer, you'll see the progress bar stop at say 78% or wherever it last updated to before the ingest pin goes low. One would think that it should move the progress bar to either 0% or 100% once the ingest is complete.

All of this, besides the macro discovery can be overcome, externally but they've definitely whittled down the list. Now, having an official GDC, ICMP and even Christie server plugins would be great. Also, likely, the Christie plugin for their projector should be updated for the current lineup.

[Steve Guttag]

Update.. the playback status LEDs only track when you are in manual mode. If you are in scheduled mode, they do not respond. They are probably looking at whatever "lights" the transport buttons, which are greyed during schedule play.

[Steve Guttag]

Four days and no error 500 (or any other error, for that matter) has appeared:

image.png

It's looking good that this firmware update has fixed the bug.

Leo, I'm noting that you are on 1.0 of the plugin and they're up to 1.2. Have you tried updating the plugin? Has Q-SYS had anything to say about the DCIO-H interaction with the Netgear plugin? Given that it is a Q-SYS certified plugin, they should stand behind it not causing harm to one of their own products.

[Leo Enticknap]

No, and I haven't had time to run it past them. I haven't needed to put any controls from the plugin onto the UIs of either of the two systems in which I tried to use it so far. On the design in which it was interacting problematically with the DCIO-H, I just removed the plugin from the design and moved on. It would have made remote troubleshooting a little quicker (being able to see switch status information via the design schematic rather than having to open a web UI), but it was not crucial or necessary for the design functionality required by the customer, so I deleted it and moved on.

If I ever do need switch control functionality from a Q-Sys UI (the only reason I can think of for wanting it would be to enable the end user to reboot a PoE peripheral easily), and the current switch firmware and Q-Sys plugin versions at that time are still problematic, then I'll work it with QSC. But for the moment, it comes under the heading of very low priority.

[Steve Guttag]

I completely understand and agree with all of your points. I could see more value in it from a troubleshooting thing for me than for a UCI. I tried it out this morning for about 5 minutes and pulled it from the design (I had bigger fish to fry...as they say).

FYI...if you are using "Media Streams"...watch out in 9.10 (or beyond 9.4 LTS). The scenario is a pair of Core Nanos running the entertainment center of a theatre (bowling alley, restaurant and sports bar). I was using media streams to grab the audio from the 6 sources (mix of cable boxes and computers/aux HDMI things) since you can point a media stream at a Visional Solutions encoder (E4100). While things were fine and dandy in 9.4.8 LTS. When the system was updated to 9.10.2, the system started to choke...badly, as more media streams were on line. If 5 or all 6 of them (stereo...so 10-12 channels total...the Nanos have the scaling license so they should support double that)

Screen Shot 2024-09-16 at 3.29.12 PM.png

The symptoms of the "choking" would be grossly distorted audio, lip-sync issues and both the primary and redundant cores dropping off line for a couple of seconds. Moving the system to 9.4.8 LTS resolved the issue. I've also changed my design a bit so that, instead of always having the 6 stream receivers active, regardless of use, they no only are enabled if one of the various sound zones is wanting a source that needs that stream. Thus, a more typical situation is just 1-3 streams are happening at any one time (or 0 if they are just listening to background music). Making that one changed completely changed the responsiveness of everything too. It is much more snappy and when a stream is called for, it comes on line pretty much instantaneously.

Unfortunately, any Nanos that are shipping now have to use 9.10 and beyond (and DCIOs shipping after 2/24).