Q-SYS Corner

[Leo Enticknap]

Does "original state" include card cage on but light off? If not - if will always start the lasers to whatever their last percentage setting was - I'm a bit cagey about that. Wouldn't want the lasers suddenly coming on in the middle of the night, potentially when the booth cooling is off.

GPI to the projector is a possibility for automating going in and out of eco mode, but in this particular installation, easier said than done. The Crestron core is in a rack about 30ft from the projector, meaning that we'd have to pull a wire. As this is a high profile residence theater booth, aesthetics matter - zip tying a wire along a water pipe would not be an option! The conduit between the pedestal and the rack is stuffed full - it would be snowing in Hell before I could poke a fish tape through it. So, silly as this sounds, establishing a GPIO connection between the Crestron and the projector would actually be a nontrivial exercise.

[Steve Guttag]

Thus far, my experience when plugging in an S4 is that it wakes up and powers up but I can't confess to having tried in all permutations. Note, the GPI 3 is an Ethernet cable BUT Barco chose to group the GPI by pin number, not wire pair so, presuming a "B" wiring, BLU/WHT is your positive and GRN is your negative. Barco also doesn't provide a pull up so you need to also provide the 5-18VDC power (couldn't do 24VDC). Again, fortunately, for me, eCNA automations have 12VDC power available.

If stringing a wire would be cost/time prohibitive due to the nature of it all...perhaps a low-cost switch and an ethernet controlled relay to take an existing Ethernet line (going to say, the projector) and get a controllable relay out of it...use whatever powers that board to also power the GPI. The 3D connector also has 12V on it, if needed.

[Steve Guttag]

A word of caution if you are using Q-SYS with Dolby ATMOS and Designer 9.0.0 (and could be others but that is the only one that I've seen it happen, multiple times), when the IMS3000 (and I would presume CP850, if you have one) takes over as the GM clock, there is a chance that the CORE will appear to lock-up as the NICs will stop communicating until the CORE is rebooted. The front panel seems to still work with the Next button still cycling through the various information. I have only seen this happen on 9.0.0, thus far but I've been able to repeat it with multiple COREs, designs and IMS3000s. As a very rough guess, it happens maybe 10% of the time. I have not had any reports of this happening on 8.4.0 And, since 9.0.1 was JUST released, I have no information if the problem exists there or not. QSC has been informed.

[Steve Guttag]

I'm trying the new 9.0.1 and, thus far, I have not been able to recreate the problem so perhaps whatever was causing the issue got fixed.

[Steve Guttag]

I have now had the problem in 9.0.1, as well.

[Steve Guttag]

So here is a bit of an update on using the Barco S1/S2 plugin with an S4.

First, here is my version of it in an UCI:

Screen Shot 2021-05-23 at 12.23.53 PM.png

To get it to reliably work on an S4, it is imperative that one configure the plugin right (disable the lamp information) and, before resetting the connection, ensure that a macro is selected. The S4 (and later S2) Cinema Controller boards do not start up with the last macro still selected. I created a dummy macro (wakeup) that does nothing more than provide a macro to wake up to however, I could, and likely will, use something like a "Preshow" macro since those are likely the first thing a theatre will want shown at the beginning of the day. If the plugin doesn't find an active macro (or the projector doesn't respond until the active macro is selected), the plugin will remain, unresponsive (either direction). However, if you do have a macro selected when either manually hitting the reset connector (or as I have done, automated as part of the wakeup routine), then it will reliably connect up and provide real-time data as well as allow for controlling the projector.

Note, I've increased the size of the status window and font character height since during non-OK events, there could be valuable information there that one would need to be able to read to see what is going on. That window changes color appropriately too.

I've also augmented it with a "Taillight" since Barco has not seen fit to include such a valuable tool on the SPxK series. That indicator is both on my DCP tab as well as the home tab so it call attention to any projector issues. There is no need to even create layers in the UCI. I merely created four LEDs with their off-states as clear and then put them into the UCI in the right order (Red on top, then yellow then blue and finally green. So, if you see the green, all of the others are off. Furthermore, I decided to let yellow and red blink via a blinking LED. The logic is pretty simple:

Screen Shot 2021-05-23 at 1.37.48 PM.png

To a degree, the specific logic for green is superfluous since it would only be visible if the other three are off.

This is, hopefully, just a stop gap until QSC officially adds S4 capability to their plugin or makes a dedicated plugin. The 9 preset limit of the S4 doesn't cut-it for many of my customers and the Web-UI has also met with disappointment from clients. For day-to-day shows, there isn't an issue since the server selects things via cues but for manual operation, something more streamlined and traditional is desired.

[Leo Enticknap]

9.1.1 is now out. Release notes are here. A 9.2 is threatened imminently, so it might not be worth the bother of installing this one, unless it addresses something specific to your system.

The major one is that all the cinema hardware and components are now fully integrated: you don't have to run the executable with the " /cinema" suffix to unlock them in Designer.

Also, there is an addition to UCI designing that should make creating designs for multiple auditoria on a single core significantly easier:

Available from the Tools menu when a UCI is selected, easily reassign the control IDs for multiple UCI controls in a single click. If you've ever created a new UCI from an existing one and wanted a painless way to point the new UCI to different components in your design, this tool was made for you.

[Steve Guttag]

Note, starting with 9.x, there is also an elevated security feature where the core will now check if the firmware to be updated is signed or not. There is a tick box in Core Manager that will allow this to be ignored. The only reason to do that would be if one were to want to roll back a design to an earlier version of Designer (say 8.4.0). You'd need to tick the box that allows legacy versions.

[Steve Guttag]

I've decided to break this next discussion into two parts. The first part concerns implementing 5.1 and 7.1 sound formats (and even 2.0). Part 2 will look into UCI considerations for cinemas.
Part 1
A common challenge for all cinema sound processor designs, for digital cinema, is to handle both 5.1 and 7.1 audio formats. Furthermore, some will also support 2.0 formats, particularly those that intend to run festivals.

As with most things in Q-SYS, there are multiple, valid, ways of tackling such problems.

Since most cinemas will want or need to handle both DCP and other audio formats, somewhere within the design will likely be either a matrix mixer or audio router to choose which source (AES audio from the cinema server or perhaps Non-Sync music from a music source like an iPod or via the QLAN network.

Let’s look at the Sample 7.1 design provided by QSC.

Picture1.png

They chose to use a simple audio router to select between sources. Within the router they can choose AES channels 1-6 and merely duplicate 5-6 (Ls/Rs) and output them on 7-8.

5.1 mode:
Picture2.png

7.1 mode:
Picture3.png

The job is not finished though. You have to address the level difference between the formats. 5.1 was long ago defined at 82dBc SPL per side (so it would be consistent with monaural surrounds of optical stereo and even magnetic film tracks where all surrounds sum to play at 85dBc, like the stage channels. However, when 7.1 was introduced for Digital Cinema, the 82dBc figure stuck but it was per-quadrant. If all four quadrants were to play at the same time, at reference level, they will measure 3dB too loud per side and 3dB too loud if all four quadrants are playing. To compensate, a 3dB offset has to be applied to the surrounds between modes.

QSC elected to apply that by putting in a 4-channel gain component with it set to -3dB.
Picture4.png

Then, depending on which mode is selected, the gain block is either bypassed (for 7.1) or not (5.1). It is simple and effective. Now, if one wants to support 2.0 (mono surrounds), one would need to add the “gain” control to the format snapshot bank and have it go to -6dB for mono surrounds, -3dB for 5.1 and either 0dB or Bypass for 7.1.

Now, an alternative (and it is one of many alternatives) would be to use a matrix mixer in lieu of the audio router and separate surround level gain block:

5.1 mode:
Picture5.png

7.1 mode:
Picture6.png

There are pros and cons to each concept. One distinct advantage to using the matrix mixer is one can set up their snapshot controller with say a 200ms delay and then provide a smooth transition/fade between formats rather than an instant switch. It also simplifies the design (fewer blocks). Ultimately, they are doing the same thing. Each use a simple snapshot bank to recall all aspects of each format.

Note, when setting up the snapshot bank, one does not need to drop in each of the cross point faders but, instead, drop in the entire block:

Picture7.png

The one slight nuisance that can happen, that I’ve noticed, are the labels are now part of the snapshot too. So, if one expands the mixer to accommodate new inputs/formats, one has to resave each of the older snapshots with the new labels if one doesn’t want to have them changing when an older preset is selected (the new labels weren’t part of the original snapshot). In smaller mixers, like the example, one can easily drag the cross point controls in…for larger mixers, the mixer may be so large that they are split up over several “banks.”

For example, to add in a 2.0 format option, an Active Matrix Decoder has to be added, some more inputs to the format mixer have to be added:

Picture8.png

Note, these are not complete designs by any means. For instance, there has been no provision for lip sync delay or delay on the surrounds, which will vary based on if the surrounds are via the Active Matrix Decoder or straight from the DCP. I've posted, earlier (post #96), the surround delay component I developed based on the Dolby CP650/CP750 delays. They would, typically, be inserted on the surround feeds from the various sources. Alternately, one could place the delay as a 4-channel component after the selector and use a control router to select between the two delay values and include that as part of the format snapshot.

In part 2, we'll look at UCI considerations and alternative ways of switching between inputs/formats.

[Steve Guttag]

Part 2

UCI Considerations, Per Button or Per Input?

Traditionally, cinema processors have used a 1-button/1-format topology. A notable exception from the film era is the Dolby CP200 where four buttons were able to access dozens of formats. In the Digital Cinema era, the Dolby CP750 has also taken a different approach, to use 1-button per input and within that, one can chose different decode modes (e.g. 5.1 or 7.1).

1-button/1-format is certainly the easier one to implement but it also consumes the maximum amount of real estate on a touchpanel (or even via web on perhaps a UCI designed to be used on one’s phone).

As before, let’s look at QSC’s example UCI (for the TSC 7…they also have one for the TSC 55 G2…it is essentially the same with some parts rearranged).

Picture1.png

They have 6 buttons allocated 4 inputs with some buttons allowing for a dedicated volume change between Trailers and Features. What if you have 7.1 trailers (they are starting to become available)? More buttons.

One has to be careful when it comes to buttons and their labels. What looks nice and big and legible on a computer monitor while you’re laying things out, can be quite tiny on an actual display. It is a good idea, before deployment, to check and see if the size you’ve chosen really works.

Here is an example of one of the UCIs we have done:

Picture2.png

There are 5 buttons to select between 3 inputs (the Wireless Mics can play over top of the other sources and do not consume a “format”). This layout works well on 5.5, 7 and 8 inch displays. The button size and spacing are such that people don’t mis-hit buttons or struggle to see what they are doing. But, with the meters (absent in the QSC sample, they have you hit the meter button to change layers). The goal of the home screen is to convey as much relevant information but without so much clutter that one gets lost figuring out what they are doing or misses information because too much is there. Most UCIs benefit from less “stuff” on them. Where the QSC Sample design has separate LEDs for the various pieces, this one has a single box that if it says “OK” the various elements are all okay (there is a “Status Combiner” in the design). If the status is other than OK, then one can press the status button to see what has an issue if the text exceeds the status box’s size.

So, what if more formats are required for the site? Do you move things around to allow for more buttons? Do you reduce the button size? Maybe a bit of both? Do you eliminate the meters and move them to another page/layer? I wouldn’t move the input meters as they are a very handy/quick and self-explanatory means of seeing if sound is coming into the system.

Here is what happens when more buttons are needed:

Picture3.png

It still works but it is definitely getting more “busy.” The use of button colors and boxes help reduce confusion and guide the user to the likely buttons they will use with the more important user buttons being larger (easier/faster to press).

But even this system is using a bit of a hybrid. Those green buttons at the top already are more CP750esq. The IMS3000 input into the format selector is just one format. The ATMOS/7.1/5.1 are done by the IMS3000. The IMS3000 will self-change to Atmos mode with Atmos content, and IMS3000 macros will switch the PCM mode based on the content that is playing. It is just one input/format from the Q-SYS perspective.

The HDMI button just selects the HDMI input on the DCIO-H. The user doesn’t have to select between 2.0, 5.1 and 7.1 content. I use a component I developed that uses the PCM status to determine if 2.0, 5.1 or 7.1 content is being played and switch things around and level balance appropriately. Starting in System 8, as I recall, QSC added an upmix option to the DCIO-H component so one could tell the DCIO-H to upmix everything to 5.1 or 7.1. The upmix function is in the help file within Q-SYS for the DCIO-H.

So, what if we make the DCP input like that? What would that look like in Designer? Well, it doesn’t change all that much:

Picture4.png

The channel routing happens in the DCP Format Decoder (just another matrix mixer with a snapshot controller):

Picture5.png

On the UCI, we can turn 3 buttons into 1 (sort of):

Picture6.png

I’ve added a format “Popup Button” to allow for format changes and status LEDs to denote not only the current decode mode but also what that input is currently set to, even if we are still on Non-Sync, as in the example:

Picture7.png

This method gives you a lot more real estate for buttons and formats since the buttons are only exposed for the time it takes to select them. Furthermore, one can preset a channel format in advance of an input change. From an automation standpoint, one can make the command switch both the input and the format or, more likely, switch them independently.

Another aspect to the “less is better” that can be implemented is to only expose the format decode when the input is active. So, via “layers” one can hide the channel format for each input unless that input is the active input. On the HDMI input, the channel format and even the bitstream format are hidden unless the HDMI input is selected:

Picture8.png

These are some of the concepts to implementing multiple channel formats within an input. Certainly, there are other means to accomplishing the same thing and that is one of the beauties of Q-SYS is that one can tailor it both internally and how it presents itself so that it fits best with the particular theatre or chain of theatres and their needs. It isn’t a one size fits all approach of the “canned” solutions. It is a multitude of sizes (there are 4 or so different sizes of cores) and it is up to the imagination of installer as to how it best fits.

The concept of how the signal flows also doesn’t have to stop at mere channel routing and user interface. One could also maintain separate level/EQ for the various surround formats (separate level/EQ for 5.1 versus 7.1 or even monaural surrounds like 2.0).

If you have your own ideas on how to implement cinema sound systems in Q-SYS (and are not only willing but are allowed to) please share them. I have hoped that Q-SYS Corner would be an exchange of ideas, and possibly an exchange of user-made components. Cinema systems have particular needs and the cinema industry has particular talents not found in traditional A/V. While there are now developing groups that cater to Q-SYS, including QSC’s own “Communities,” they are, naturally, going to be very A/V centric (how do you set up a MS Team rooms?) sort of things and are going to be, understandably, lite on cinema issues or ideas. For most A/V companies, cinema ideas stop at adding a home-theatre for a client or a boardroom with a 5.1/7.1 system or maybe an auditorium in a university. This is a place where cinema people can help one another, the same way we did with film systems. It isn’t that the A/V community doesn’t have immense talent, they do. They have a lot of great people making custom components I could only dream of making. They just come from a different perspective based on their experience…which isn’t cinema.

[Steve Guttag]

Q-SYS Designer 9.1.2 has been released.

What's New in 9.1.2

Version 9.1.2 is a maintenance release of the Q-SYS platform. It includes these updates and resolved issues.
Touch Screen Support


Version 9.1.2 is required to support TSC-G2 touch screen models shipped after August 1, 2021. A notice will be included in the box for any TSC touch screen requiring this update.
Resolved Known Issues

• Control: Selecting a component with a NULL user label in the Remap UCI Controls [BETA] tool no longer causes an error message and Designer to close.
• Monitor: A memory leak in the SNMP Query component has been fixed and no longer causes designs to stop.

[Leo Enticknap]

One gotcha to be aware of: if you update a Q-Sys system in which UCIs are running not on Q-Sys touch panels (e.g. Apple, Android, or Windows devices), you may need to update the UCI reader on those, too. Yesterday I updated a system from 9.0.0 to 9.1.1 (and now we have yet another update - sigh!), that the end user drives with an iPad. The update caused the iPad UCI reader to stop working (it wouldn't see the design), and I had to update it from the Crapp Store to current.

Typically, a version update hasn't broken the Windows UCI reader (which a few of my customers use), but I've now discovered that it does with iOS. Don't know about Android. Moral of the story is to check all the UCIs running on non-QSC hardware in a system after doing an update.

[Harold Hallikainen]

On 5.1/7.1 selection, I really like the matrix mixer (which I did in the JSD-60) instead of a separate gain block for the surround channels. That mixer handles 5.1/7.1 selection, input selection, HI generation, etc. I like having every channel be the same, as much as possible, and applying appropriate configuration adjustments to each as formats are selected. This allowed, for example, the JSD-60 to handle 5.1 and 7.1 auditoriums and, by adjusting the input matrix mixer, drive ins. The box was made "as dumb as possible." It doesn't know you what input you have selected. Pushing a button just loads values into the input mixer, equalizer, etc.

Harold

[Steve Guttag]

Leo, there is an updated iPAD app that fixes the missing UCI. I believe this was predicated that 9.1.x ups the security on the CORE. 9.1.1 has had some gripes on some A/V forums. If you have not signed up for QSC's Communities, I recommend it. I suspect that the FB groups for QSYS will get progressively less traction as Communities increases. Using FB as a tech support group and file repository always felt a bit strange.

Harold the above 5.1/7.1 examples were just that. My actual format selector is MUCH larger in my typical systems. And for my Atmos rooms...it can get to be crazy large.

[Jay Wyatt]

Have to agree with Harold and Steve that the Matrix mixer is definitely the more versatile of the two options because is handles routing and gain all-in-one (shocker right!). However, the nod went to the router on the sample design for simplicity sake - QSYS can have a learning curve and presenting a novice user with 60 crosspoint faders and 40+ solos, mutes, trims, and in/out gains is just asking for confusion (and we're just at the second stop in the signal flow at this point). Consider the sample design as the baseline for achieving the classic fixed architecture in a relatively easy to follow signal path. Of course you're free to venture outside of those confines at your discretion.