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Like it or not, the Facebook Q-SYS forum is the most popular and fastest place for general answers. As to the plugin issue. Yes, it is reported and this has been the response:
Netgear have confirmed a bug with the Rest API in that firmware version. Live with it a while or roll back to .17 or earlier.
Many thanks for relaying. As you know, my privacy concerns with the social media behemoths are such that I don't want to go anywhere near them. If it's a harmless bug, then we can live with it; especially as the combination of the Q-Sys HDMI endpoints and Netgear AV switches has been very efficient and painless. Once hooked up, they just worked. The glitches and ass bites on this install have all been audio and automation/integration related (e.g. figuring out what commands to send to an ancient Doug Fleenor RS232 to DMX box to control the house lights). The HDMI side of things just plugged and played (once source devices had been forced to 7.1 LPCM audio output, because unlike the DCIO-H, the Q-Sys HDMI video endpoints can't handle Dolby or DTS audio).
Doug Fleenor! I have not heard that name in a while. We exchanged some DMX design ideas about 20 years ago when I worked for Dove Systems in San Luis Obispo. He is in Arroyo Grande, about 15 miles south. I saw him quite frequently back then.
Yes, the Q-SYS endpoints do not support bitstream audio, unfortunately. And, I'm sure, the Q-SYS backbone doesn't either so even if they were to, say, be able to license Dolby/DTS into an NV21/NV32...that end point would need to do the decoding right then and there and move the audio as an 8-channel stream rather than just keep it encoded for it to be decoded elsewhere. By forcing the sources to do the decoding you just move it up stream one notch and are dependent on each source.
The other issue is if you want to have that multichannel audio map to a cinema sound system...how to handle 2-channel, versus 5.1 channel, versus 7.1 channel? Correct me if I'm wrong, the channel count information is lost. So, if you open your NV endpoint to 8-channel audio to cover all bases, it won't tell you that you have just a 2-channel content coming in (e.g. a laptop). Now, you are left with either coming up with clever schemes to use the actual signals to see if it is just 2-channel or a higher count (and then figuring out when to presume 2-channel) or, just letting 2-channel stuff play out of left and right speakers and create a huge hole at the front of the theatre. Additionally 5.1 content will not use the rear surrounds.
I have not played with the NV stuff, myself, yet, because it is, shall we say, pricey, if you just want HDMI endpoints. However, I do see that on the Generic HDMI Display and Generic HDMI source...you CAN specify the channel count and they have "Valid" status pins available. Do these keep up with what is plugged in? It looks like it should but I cannot emulate it.
One of the benefits of the DCIO-H is that it does keep channel count information, even from LPCM so one can apply the appropriate channel routing/decoding.
My next question for you is with respect to the whole network switches in a complex. It is one thing to have a big Netgear switch and feed everything from it...though it makes the network VERY cumbersome when one gets to the point of getting that network down to the screen of a theatre. That is, while it is simple enough to group a handful of lines per screen and land them on a patch bay at each screen (though in a 10-plex, for example, you are now out to 50 such lines with a switch to match...or you have to reduce the line count). You're going to want 3 lines, minimum to each theatre (projector, local, screen area for a lectern/laptop). But, if you are using copper...that distance could be frustrating on the furthest runs. If going fiber, at some point, you are going to need to get it back to copper and all the while, paying attention to the bandwidth of it all because you are going to have at least 2-streams going (source and display) for that single theatre.
The other thought I had was to use a fiber only at the central point where you can get 10G or so to each theatre and then smaller switches at each theatre to go from fiber to copper...10G in and 1G to each device. Again, this gets into a pretty pricey situation.
Another scenario I've thought about is to really minimize hardware. Run 2-3 lines to each theatre but no endpoints. If theatre 2 is using the A/V system, then take the endpoint with say letter "E1" on it...plug it in down by the screen (or mount it in a lectern and use it for Zoom applications since that can be your AV bridge via USB as well)...take another endpoint with say D1 on it and plug that into the projector's HDMI input (via the server or directly into the projector, depending on the feature set)...at that point, all the user has to do is select that E1 connects to D1 and the system doesn't care where they physically are located. You don't need to do any dynamic pairing either. If need be, you can have D1's audio routed to the specific theatre.
One of the things I'm trying to avoid is the added expense of having a bunch of hardware that sits around waiting for the rare opportunity to be used because the event happens to use a specific auditorium on a specific day. Copper is relatively low-cost to buy/install. Endpoints and even network switches, like the Netgear stuff is more expensive (and is more likely to need replacing/updating than the copper in any given period of time).
For Blu-ray stuff, I'm already designing systems where there may be just 2-3 of them for a complex and then just route them to where they need to go for that event. Again, just route BR-1 to D2 and put D2 wherever the event is. Using endpoints like Visionary Solutions (which do handle bitstream as well as scaling/frame rate conversion), it is all PoE stuff (which the NV32 is only PoE if your switch has a small nuclear reactor in it).
It would be great if Q-SYS would come out with a QIO HDMI or, better yet, bring out a new I/O frame and have an HDMI card (probably not going to happen as they have moved away from that model). The added expense of having DCIO-H versus the DCIO could be diverted to building up a sufficient HDMI decoding infrastructure with say Extron SSP200 as you only need enough to handle your worst case rather than...again, if you are a 10-plex, paying for 10 HDMI decoders on the off chance that each particular theatre MAY use the HDMI port, at some time. The extra expense for the HDMI support over that complex is approaching around $10K...that money could be diverted to putting the amount HDMI decoding you really need and getting the right amount of video endpoints that you really need. Make the endpoints less theatre specific.
Note, the Title Count is configurable via the properties on the right hand plane. I have it set to 16 to match the button panel. The text on the buttons are pulled from the projector.
So, you can use the plugin for diagnostics as well as control. The "Test Pattern" box in the upper screen shot is a drop-down so you can select a test pattern too.
And, remember, you don't have to present a plugin as provided, you can parse out the bits and pieces that are important to you (and augment them, as desired) and present them in a manner you find works best. Here is one of my NEC UCIs (the client's colors are burgundy and gold so the UCI reflects that).
For instance, it was confusing what is meant by the douser status. Some that deal with video projectors will know a douser as a video mute so is true when muted or true when open? I opted to use the words Open and Close and to reinforce the state of all three controls with multi-color LEDs that show green when everything should be putting a picture out and red if anything could prevent a picture.
Q-SYS has just added another cinema-specific plugin into Asset Manager. This time, it is for the Dolby IMS3000 cinema server and boy is it feature packed. It is clear to me that Dolby participated with this one, pretty heavily.
Just about everything that is in Cinelister is available here. In fact, it is MORE informative than the actual UI on the server itself. For instance, when you press play within Cinelister, you have no idea of what is going to start. You have to flip back to the “Edit” screen to see what, if anything, is loaded into the player. On the plugin, however, you can load a show or CPL and hit play. Furthermore, note that they bring the scheduled show information into the plugin too so you know what the current show and next show times are.
You get quite a bit of information of the current CPL that is playing and the state of the show. The virtual “LEDs” represent what the CPL is configured for and the “Current” section at the top shows what the actual state of the player/sound are.
The transport controls behave as they do in the Doremi/Dolby Web UI…they grey out when one is in schedule mode but show when the player is in manual mode. Furthermore, they grey out based on what the player is doing (e.g. pause button is only active when you are playing and the play button is only active when you are paused/stopped.
For some reason, the “Audio Input” only understands “DCP.” So, if you are using either the HDMI or SDI inputs, that status will not be provided.
While the Position and Duration values are presented, there isn’t a progress bar nor a “time remaining” provided for either the SPL or CPL.
The “Hardware” tab gives a quick overview of the server and projector (for the server, the size of the storage/percent remaining. The projector just has basic info. One does have the ability to reboot, shutdown or send the server into standby (as well as “wakeup) from here.
The ingest information is interesting. The “Overall Status LED lights whenever it is ingesting. However, the progress bar is only active if you actually select one of the ingests in the Current Ingest Task window. It would have been nice if they provided a “Follow Current Ingest” functionality as well as activating that by default. Maybe on version 2?
The Macros tab can be modified in properties to have up to 100 Macros. This can give you UCI buttons to control most things on the IMS3000.
The plugin will scan the IMS3000 for available automation macros and then one can fill the table using drop-downs. The above is just an example. Your servers may have entirely different macros.
Believe it or not, you can even check logs from this plugin…which can be handy if you need a quick troubleshooting aid. I’m not too sure about putting it on a UCI except for special screening rooms.
The Content tab is pretty nifty. You select the title (it will automatically scan the server) and the plugin will list its parameters, somewhat comprehensively. It would have been nice if it also displayed the metadata for things like Credit Start but that is not included.
If a show isn’t running, you can also have it “check” content to see if there is anything amiss with the CPL.
It will also list any keys installed on the server relating to the content selected.
So, that is the new IMS3000 plugin. It isn’t too hard to figure out just how useful it could be in both commercial cinemas as well as private screening rooms.
The glaring omission: Where is the audio controls? No volume? No mute control? In my opinion, the audio capabilities should have been a “properties” configurable item.
Other shortcomings that I’ve discovered:
No progress bars for either CPL or SPL.
No remaining time counters for either CPL or SPL
It does not indicate if either SDI or HDMI are the audio source. It is either DCP or n/a.
The Ingest progress bar does not follow the current ingest. It follows what you select.
Most of these can be overcome with some quick Block Controller work:
This was just my quick “scratch pad” while playing with the component (the display/buttons on the left are just ones that I drug out of the plugin, the ones on the right are the ones I created). I added the 5.1, 7.1 and Atmos decoder status LEDs (there is textual information that can be used to decode it) as well as the Play/Pause/Stop (Eject) status LEDs.
This does not solve the audio portion but, via ASCII commands, one can control/monitor the IMS3000 (CP950 and CP850 share the same commands) and there are Dolby/dB components out there for those that don’t want to roll their own. Hopefully, on the next iteration, these features will be added (someone has already “made suggestions”).
Dolby clearly has the lead on QSYS integration here. It would be great if the other major server companies also stepped up (GDC, Barco, Christie come to mind, for my uses).
I have tested it in QDS 9.4.5 and 9.4.6. The release notes indicate that it was developed with 9.10. I have NOT tested it with older Doremi servers to see if it works and if so, how much. I would presume that this plugin makes extensive use of WSDL/Soap communication rather than KLV/ASCII/SSH...the prior means. I don't know how much backwards compatibility as been put into the older products.
QDS 9.4.7 LTS has (finally) been released! This is a big one (for me). 9.4.7 LTS fixes the bug introduced in 9.4.6 LTS where the HPF/LPF used in the Custom Voicing component for the speaker crossovers were not always followed...leaving the distinct possibility of damaging/destroying your speakers (mids, and highs). 9.4.6 LTS brought about a lot of fixes so it was a desirable upgrade but I think 9.4.7 LTS gets you all of those plus without damaging your system. I'm sure time will tell if 9.4.7 LTS brings any new "undocumented features."
This is the version I would recommend cinema people use, if possible. If you are doing a new installation with new equipment, particularly the DCIO/DCIO-H...those made after February 2024 require QDS 9.10 or later. This is one of the things that frustrates me with Q-SYS. When things are brought out due to obsolescence that, effectively, replace an existing device, they should be included in the LTS branch. Examples include the Core 610 (replaces the Core 510i...which I know is still in "production" but it was thought to have been discontinued with the Core 610 came out) and now, the DCIO family, which is the same model number just with different chips inside due to discontinued parts. It isn't like people are seeking any of the new "features" of the later QDS branches, which are inherently more buggy. I do have a site on 9.10.0 (Core 610) and am not having any issues but I'd still prefer to be in the LTS branch.
Here are the release notes:
v9.4.7 (LTS)
Version 9.4.7 is a Long Term Support (LTS) release of Q-SYS Designer Software. It was released May 29, 2024, and includes these updates and resolved issues.
Note: See the Downgrade Notices section for important information concerning downgrading to version 9.4.7 (LTS) from version 9.5.0 and later.
Resolved Known Issues
Amplifiers: An issue that caused Custom Voicing in High and Low Pass Filters to be bypassed incorrectly has been resolved.
Amplifiers: Resolved an issue that would cause "LAN A Streaming Error" to popup when pulling logs on a CX-Q.
Amplifiers: Designs containing a space in the name and a CX-Q amplifier no longer fail to restart in standalone mode.
Amplifiers: Running designs with amplifiers and a pink noise generator no longer causes packets to drop.
Amplifiers: Resolved the issue where clicking on an amplifier in Configurator would cause LAN A/B errors.
Control: Resolved the issue where customers experiencing unexpected core failovers, C++ exceptions with scriptable controls, and premature deletion of Timers in Lua scripting.
Control: Resolved an issue where TSC-G2 touch panels enter a reboot loop and would not negotiate on 100Mbps.
Platform: Event logs for Page Stations in Core Manager no longer show packet missing errors.
Downgrade Notices
If you are downgrading to version 9.4.7 (LTS) from version 9.5.0 and later, we recommend performing these actions as part of the downgrade process:
If your design includes NC-110 cameras, perform a Factory Reset following the downgrade. This resets the cameras' Max ePTZ Zoom limit back to 8x zoom. For Factory Reset instructions, see the NC Series User Manual at qsys.com.
If your design includes an NV-32-H (Core Capable) processor in Core Mode, perform a Factory Reset following the downgrade. This enables the System Log to be usable by Q-SYS Support, if needed and authorized. For Factory Reset instructions, see the NV-32-H (Core Capable) User Manual at qsys.com.
If your design includes USB Sound Card components, consider upgrading to version 9.6.0 before downgrading to version 9.4.7 (LTS). This preserves these components within the schematic without the need to re-add them from the Inventory.
QDS 9.10.2 has been released for the main branch of Q-SYS Designer Software. This is almost exclusively a bug-fix release and most of it targeting the video portion, particularly if you use NV endpoints. In cinema, this could be if you use them for things like Zoom/Team rooms. That said, there is also a fix for Visionary Solutions (AVoIT devices) where they use media streams (handy way to get audio from the source onto the network without much, if any effort).
Also remember, if you have a new DCIO/DCIO-H (ones shipped after 12/23, and should be indicated by paperwork in the original box), then you need to be on QDS 9.10 and later so this is the version for you. For all others, I recommend 9.4.7 LTS. Additionally, it would appear that the Core Nano and 8-Flex have joined the 9.10 or later group too (those shipping after June 2024). It is clear that QSYS has no intention of letting the more stable LTS branch receive even updated versions of existing equipment, unfortunately. I'd think that most of us would prefer stability over more features, that often cinemas do not need. And, if you do, there is the main-line branch (which I call the "buggy branch").
I, personally, have not had an issue with 9.10, where I have used it, including running 7 screens on a pair of Core 610s in redundant mode.
v9.10.2
Version 9.10.2 was released June 3, 2024, and is a maintenance release of the Q-SYS platform. It includes these updates and resolved issues.
New Product Support
PL-CA Coaxial Series Performance Loudspeakers for Q-SYS
Resolved Known Issues
Audio: The issue of excessive QIO log notifications when switching from primary/backup using the button in QSD has been resolved.
Amplifiers: Resolved the issue when adding PL-LA8 or PL-LA12 components to a new design and editing the number of segments, the number of input pins does not increase correspondingly as expected.
Video: Improved Dell 5440 compatibility with USB driver errors within Windows Device Manager.
Video: Reduced the occurrence of the "offline" message shown when; unplugging and replugging a USB-C laptop video source with a camera video bridge; or soft rebooting the NV21 and Core simultaneously.
Video: Reduced the occurrence where the NV-21-HU Decoder goes missing followed by the Encoder while using Shift streams.
Video: Addressed an issue where Camera status would report "OK - Camera started"; Camera status now reports "OK".
Video: Resolved the issue where, upon redeployment, cameras were resetting to coordinates (0, 0, 0) instead of retaining their privacy position.
Video: CEC function on NV-21-HU no longer reports a "Fault - Command not acknowledged" status.
Video: Addressed the issue where, during camera privacy mode, IP streams were not blank as expected, and after exiting privacy mode, the live preview remained stuck.
Video: Resolved the issue where the HID Conferencing Controller could disrupt USB Bridging functionality on the NV-32-H Encoder.
Video: An issue that would cause the error "Fault because Output stream LAN A Streaming Error (Packet Missing)on NV-32-H has been resolved.
Video: NV-21-HU devices no longer fails to output video if HPD never goes low or off when HDMI Enable is toggled on or off.
Video: Resolved switching AV router performance when rapidly switching no longer causes the Core to become unresponsive.
Video: The issue regarding USB device connection failures, previously experienced on NV-32-H devices with Windows Code 43 error, has been resolved.
Video: Improved USB connection reliability where NV-21-HU devices would experience USB enumeration failures or show "Valid Format" detection failures.
Video: Control within Q-SYS Designer no longer becomes sluggish when running scripts with NV-32-H devices.
Control: Resolved an issue where TSC-G2 touch panels enter a reboot loop and would not negotiate on 100Mbps.
Control: Resolved the issue where attempting to delete the Monitoring Proxy status component, added in Q-SYS Designer v9.10.0 and then opened in v9.9.0, resulted in an error "Error updating Monitoring Proxy".
Control: An issue that caused rendered text and other controls to appear blurry in HTML-based UCIs only has been resolved.
Control: Resolved the issue where customers experiencing unexpected core failovers, C++ exceptions with scriptable controls, and premature deletion of Timers in Lua scripting.
Platform: Resolved an issue where the Core Status block will report a “Compromised - System performance utilization has hit a critical value”.
Platform: Resolved the issue where Q-SYS Media Stream Receivers in v9.10.0 were unable to accept streams from Visionary Solutions network video encoders.
Platform: Resolved the issue where Q-SYS Cores were sending factory-default hostnames instead of user-specified ones to DHCP servers.
Management: Renaming a Q-SYS device no longer results in both original and new names appearing in Configurator.
Last edited by Steve Guttag; 06-04-2024, 09:14 PM.
Unfortunately, QDS 9.4.7 LTS is a bust. Despite the claim of
Amplifiers: An issue that caused Custom Voicing in High and Low Pass Filters to be bypassed incorrectly has been resolved
This is not the case. If you are on 9.4.7LTS...if you toggle the filter's bypass button, they'll start working but that only lasts until you push a new design so 9.4.5 LTS remains my recommended version for cinemas, for now...unless you are forced into a later version due to newer equipment requirements. I have not, personally, had any issue with 9.10.0 or 9.10.2 (yet).
There is an issue whereby the NV-21-HU, if in use as a decoder and in 2160p (4K) mode, will periodically drop the video signal for a few seconds if it's HDCP-encrypted. The picture will eventually return. It happens very frequently with Mac laptops; slightly less so with other playback sources. I discovered this during an install using 9.10.1. QSC told us that there would be a fix in 9.10.2, and gave us a beta to try; but it didn't resolve the problem. At that point we had to switch from QSC to Visionary Solutions endpoints, because reliable 4K HDMI was a non-negotiable must for the customer. Whether the actual release version of 9.10.2 fixed it, I don't know.
Has anyone else started to use the Dolby IMS plugin (version 1.0.0)? I'm finding when it is talking to a "Server Mode" (no audio decoder/processor...just the normal AES3 outputs, that the plugin seems to not be able to get the CPL information (name, status, beyond its time position). The SPL information works as expected but not the CPL (including duration). I have not had this issue on my first test site that is full-featured IMS3000 with Dolby Atmos. I'm also noting that it isn't picking up on the Macro list (populating the list).
After further testing, this problem may be just with one site on one server and not a plugin issue, after all. I checked the plugin on QDS 9.4.5 (and verified that the plugin does not work on 9.3 and below...so they are using some new scripting features that was not present in the earlier QDS versions), 9.4.7 and 9.10.2. It worked with various forms of IMS3000s.
Another oddity with the site that has the issue with the plugin is that they have a very large number of Macros (210) and the plugin (or possibly the API of the server itself) is choking on sending that quantity out, when requested by API. This is in an "Art" house that has many formats, including video related plus 100 volume cues, at the ready...it adds up quickly.
I've updated the CP650 emulator for DSS servers from post #255
It now does have the CP650 format button outputs. One can now cue their DSS server with an 01, 04, ...etc. cues and it will trigger the output pins of the component. The installer will need to define what those buttons actually do as I just loaded in "typical" values for the DSS server to read. No provision has been made for various format numbers that the CP650 supported and could, possibly, be read by the DSS server.
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