NEC 900C Fan Exchange error

[Leo Enticknap]

Barco, being a mainland European affair, where space is far less an issue and where we like to build fortresses and stuff that's made to last...

Barco's global headquarters is in Kortrijk, which I believe comes pretty close to holding the record in Western Europe for the number of battles that took place between opposing armies for control of the city, between the fall of the Roman Empire and the end of the Second World War. Whether this has influenced Barco's design philosophy in any way might be an interesting topic of speculation!

But the law of the Sliding Window of Expectations is inevitable, whether you agree with it or not.

I don't agree. If a procedure is fresh in my mind from just having done it, I can do it again and immediately just as accurately but a lot more quickly, because I can remember things that I would either have to look up in the service manual, or figure out by trial and error. If I haven't had to do it it for six months, I have to re-learn as I go along.

Same thing installing an NC1201L-A yesterday. I couldn't get the thing to create the USB laser safety key. Despite having put the projector into service mode, it wouldn't let me do it. After 30 minutes of frustration and on the verge of calling NEC, I remembered that the projector has to be in standby mode, not with the card cage powered up, for it to let you do that. If this had been the second projector that day I'd installed, I would not have lost those 30 minutes.

I'm sure most of the NC900 ballast failures were the direct result of lamp failures taking the ballast out.

Absolutely all of them, in my case. All the ballast failures I've encountered have had the old -02 lamp in them, that fails to a short when it blows, rather than the -06 lamp, which was redesigned such that it won't take the ballast with it if it blows. And yes, those ballast cards are an absolute goatf****r to extract. Whenever I encounter a customer's projector that still has -02 lamps in it, I advise them of the ballast issue and suggest that they be replaced with -06s preemptively; not least because NEC's lamp warranty expires at two years, regardless of hours. There are no -02 lamps in the field younger than two years now, so if one blows and takes out its ballast, the end user is stuck with the bill for a new lamp, ballast, and tech labor to swap out the ballast, the total of which will likely nudge into four figures.

[Greg Routenburg]

Steve, I stand corrected on the Barco reflector. I was clearly misinformed. None of my Ushio lamps have ever exploded, thank goodness (touch wood), so it's never been an issue for me. On few instances I've ever needed to deal with Barco directly on an extended warranty claim, they have been nearly as good to deal with as GDC. Honestly though, how do you find the value of the extended warranty for the Barco equipment? It's been a while since I've done the cost/benefit analysis. Has the updated pricing made it more reasonable?

You're absolutely right about the 900C ballast mounting. It is completely ridiculous. The only defense for them on that is that the ballast was actually manufactured by Ushio for them so the header and mounting positions weren't their design. They probably could have found a more graceful way to mount and cable them though.

The NC2000C uses the same formatters as the NC1200C, p/n 81N94B01 or 81N94R01 depending on which one you're changing, and I field replaced one of those a couple years ago. Bought a special torque driver specifically for that job. Are you saying that they are no longer a service part? If so, that's a real shame.

[Gordon McLeod]

I bought formater for the 1200c a few months ago from strong with no problems

[Steve Guttag]

I guess it is my turn to be corrected on the formatter parts. I hadn't considered getting the formatters separately. Did you find getting alignment back (convergence and imager focus relative to the other two) difficult? Since I haven't changed the formatter, and I don't have a prism in front of me...the next question is...can the board be removed/replaced without disturbing the DMD itself?

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

As for NEC...absolutely, you can get most any part. Depending on the model you may or may not be able to get a formatter. If you have an NC2000C...nope...you are changing the prism out and their pricing is rough in that you pay the full-tilt price for the replacement prism and then...months later, they credit back the difference but you are floating over $20K US in the meantime. Fortunately, Strong, can do NEC prism repairs and has a MUCH more reasonable pricing strategy. I also give NEC props for NEC made parts...they rarely fail. I'm sure most of the NC900 ballast failures were the direct result of lamp failures taking the ballast out. But what ass-hat stacked the ballast like that with the one PCB mount absurdly done. Had they made them slide in/out, it would have cost them next to zero extra but would have made service a breeze. Also, who sharpens all of the sheet metal parts on the NEC projectors (that is something I find in common with most Japanese designed/built stuff...sharp sheetmetal). NEC has, in the last year or so jacked up their parts prices quite a bit. I was shocked at the price of an ICP fan for an NC2000C (it went up to about double of what it used to be).[/QUOTE]

I was able to get a fotmatter for an NC-2000, but it came through Strong. I had a brand new projector with a bad formatter and they obliged and sent one to the site. Just be sure to have the proper torque kit to make sure it's correctly fastened down. Also have that color DMD facing down so none of the gold contacts fall out when you pull the board off... .

I change the Power On, AC On and ICP fans at 5 year intervals. They are the three most critical fans in the projector, although I have never had one fail. Only ever had to change a reflector in a Christie, never in an NEC.

Sharp just took over NEC Display, so that may explain some of the price increase. Personally, you can buy any fan on line from a variety of places and just move the connector over to the new one.

[Greg Routenburg]

I guess it is my turn to be corrected on the formatter parts. I hadn't considered getting the formatters separately. Did you find getting alignment back (convergence and imager focus relative to the other two) difficult? Since I haven't changed the formatter, and I don't have a prism in front of me...the next question is...can the board be removed/replaced without disturbing the DMD itself?

I've only ever done two, one in NEC school and the other in the field. Neither gave me any problems. I was sweating bullets the first time I did it on my own though. The way it was explained to me, the DMD is mounted to the prism in a frame which is glued in place. The formatter is then mounted above the DMD and connects to the board with a field of spring loaded gold contacts. As Mark says, they warn to you be very careful when removing the old formatter so as to not dislodge any of those gold pins. There are also very specific torque values for the bolts that secure the formatter to the mounting frame to ensure proper contact with those pins. I'd have to look them up again. It's been a while.

Because the DMD is factory aligned to the prism and isn't disturbed by the formatter replacement process, convergence shouldn't be an issue. It wasn't on the two that I've done.

IMHO, this is probably the greatest plus of the S2 NEC line. I've had way more formatter failures than DMD failures. Let's put it this way, if all my Christie formatter failures had been in NEC machines, I'd have easily been able to save $30K in parts over the last 5 years. As it is, I've only had one fail on an actual NEC so the cost savings have been modest but the piece of mind is very real.

Personally, you can buy any fan on line from a variety of places and just move the connector over to the new one.

I tried finding the ICP fans last year in all of the usual online places but wasn't able to find it. It uses a different style of tach that makes it incompatible with most other three wire fans. I'd be tickled if you could share that find with me some time.

[Steve Guttag]

In the NEC schools I attended...they never showed us formatter changes (except the NC900/NC1100, where they don't do it as a prism assy, unlike the NC1200/2000). So, I'm guessing, you remove the prism and then the cage. Rotate the assy such that the formatter you are working on is on top. Then remove the fasteners for the formatter? And yes, in the NEC service manuals, they are very good about suppling torque values for every fastener...even seemingly insignificant ones.

I too have been unable to find suitable 3-wire fans for the NEC nor am I tooled up to work with those connectors. I can normally find the 2-wire standard fans of the same make/model.

[Greg Routenburg]

In the NEC schools I attended...they never showed us formatter changes (except the NC900/NC1100, where they don't do it as a prism assy, unlike the NC1200/2000). So, I'm guessing, you remove the prism and then the cage. Rotate the assy such that the formatter you are working on is on top. Then remove the fasteners for the formatter? And yes, in the NEC service manuals, they are very good about suppling torque values for every fastener...even seemingly insignificant ones.

I too have been unable to find suitable 3-wire fans for the NEC nor am I tooled up to work with those connectors. I can normally find the 2-wire standard fans of the same make/model.

The formatter changes weren't supposed to be included in our course but we were ahead of schedule and they tossed it in for fun.

You need to remove the heatsinks and cooling loop as well but that's basically the process, yes.

[Fraser Falconer]

Happy New Year's from Down Under,
We clearly have something in the air down here,or perhaps we are missing something in the air. Could be the massive hole in the Ozone layer above NZ as I have replaced four S2 Formatters in the last 12 months, the most recent on the first of January this year. They are almost becoming second nature to replace, they are generally completed in under 2 hours. I have a NC-900 which looks like it may have a faulty Red Formatter as of today as well. So I don't know why we have so many failures of these here in NZ

Cheers Fraser

[Carsten Kurz]

Looks like a virus...

[Fraser Falconer]

Hi Carsten,
Could well be a virus who knows. I might still go for environmental though. I know of at least another 8-10 failures in NZ since S2 have been on the scene, so over the last ten years. I have attached an image ( I hope) of a failed formatter from what I think is a build up of dust and then a sudden change in temperature causing a dew point, it happens here on occasion. In this case I'd probably say more than once. Sorry about the image, it was just a quick snap.

Cheers Fraser

[Tony Bandiera Jr]

image_748.jpg

Hi Carsten,
Could well be a virus who knows. I might still go for environmental though. I know of at least another 8-10 failures in NZ since S2 have been on the scene, so over the last ten years. I have attached an image ( I hope) of a failed formatter from what I think is a build up of dust and then a sudden change in temperature causing a dew point, it happens here on occasion. In this case I'd probably say more than once. Sorry about the image, it was just a quick snap.

Cheers Fraser

That looks like a bad batch of solder or a board that was not properly cleaned of excess flux after soldering. I would definitely push on the manufacturer to investigate and issue refunds or a warranty exchange.

[Marcel Birgelen]

At first glance, I'd indeed say something wrong with the solder or uncleaned flux with corrosive residue, but if I look at the heatsink, there also seems to be some corrosion going on there. I'd say there really seems to be something in the air...

[Fraser Falconer]

I wish it was a manufacturing defect, but at 8 years old when this PCB failed I wouldn't even be game to try the manufacturer for a warranty replacement. As Marcel correctly states It is quite heavily contaminated, and much worse when it initially came out of the LE and funnily enough the Cinema in question is within spitting distance of the ocean. Not the best environment for sensitive electronic equipment. I have found on the S2 the Red Formatter fails most often, IMHO I think it is due to the location of Red DMD fan to the Formatter PCB while really efficient at cooling the DMD and Formatter, a dew point situation the Red Formatter PCB wears any droplets unfortunately. I always keep a couple of Formatters on the shelf now. As all Series 2 machines, irrespective of manufacturer are aging, we can expect a lot more interesting faults to occur in the future.

[Carsten Kurz]

As I said, it's the f***ing corro*** virus...!