NEC NC2000C Bad Certificate Error

[Steve Guttag]

Most of our box servers run 24/7 with the COVID 19 shutdown being the exception where people wanted to save as much as possible. I'd say that for the GDC box servers, the AAA lithium batteries go substantially longer than 5 years. Shelf life on them are 20-years and I changed one for a customer this year that took over a theatre that had one that showed no signs that they had ever been changed in 10-years!!! In fact, they called us in to do the certificate update and I, as a matter of course came out with the batteries too. Changed the BIOS battery, mediablock certificate batteries and loaded the updated certificate...all without incident (we do have the temporary certificate battery thingy...which seems to be made by AJA and is WAY too close to the battery holder (as in hits it when you are trying to remove the cover...a couple of mm further away would make it less "exciting." Post C19, I'm changing certificate batteries as a matter of course since they are likely drained faster than in normal use.

[Justin Hamaker]

Does anyone have the part number for the NEC Enigma Board?

[Steve Guttag]

The NEC part number is: 7N951421

[Justin Hamaker]

Thanks Steve.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

The cost of GDC warranty extensions is so high that many users feel that it's worth the risk of not buying them (especially the owners of older SX-3000s, and rack servers with IMBs or HD-SDI media blocks). Industry conventions prevent me from posting actual figures on a publicly accessible website, but one customer I dealt with recently had been quoted an annual renewal figure which was such that between one and two years' warranty extension amounted to the cost of a brand new IMS. In other words, if his out-of-warranty IMS survives for two years, he's ahead. He told me that this is a calculated risk that he's willing to take. The Dolby IMS costs a bit more to buy initially, but when I'm asked why, I flag up one of the reasons as being that it's significantly cheaper to get them recertificated if they're out of warranty.

I think what annoys so many people about the ICP is that there is no DCI rule forcing the battery to be non-rechargeable and non-replaceable, combined with the high replacement cost of the board. In many projectors, it is the second most expensive part, after the light engine. It was good to see Barco address this in the ICP-D, by making the battery user replaceable.

I honestly never had a customer not renew his extension, I did have one forget to do it though.. . And they do give discounts for renewing for multiple years... I would consider the yearly fee reasonable considering they will remote into your server if your Tech is unavailable. NOw there may be some dealers that add a considerable buck to the cost, but all my customers deal direct for that sort of thing.

[Steve Guttag]

The traditional cost for the GDC warranty extension that includes the hardware warranty was not too bad (traditionally just under 1/10 the cost of a new equivalent server). However, to put it back into warranty is at least a year penalty. I have, normally, not had a problem selling that warranty. Most of our GDC servers that no longer have a warranty are due to GDC dropping that option for the SX-2001A and SX-2000A/R. I think the finger in your eye approach of having a daily "nag" about the warranty being expired, with no way to turn it off besides paying a ransom fee for "Software Warranty" is bad practice. The software warranty price is often a bad value, particularly on mature product where the software updates are far less frequent. What you are paying for is for the possibility that they come out with a software update that also happens to fix a problem you are experiencing or a feature you might want.

Dolby's extended warranty is significantly cheaper however Dolby caps theirs at 5-years total warranty (2-years are available past the initial 3-years). GDC has, traditionally, offered full hardware warranty options for any server that is still in production so you could get extended warranty to push that server's coverage out to 10 years or so...but they have also given short-notice on the discontinuation of not only warranty options but also parts/repair of discontinued servers (6-months to a year). Dolby, traditionally, ensures that they can support a product, at least, 3-years past the end of production and gives, upon announcement of a product's discontinuation, how long they will support it with parts and repairs.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

The traditional cost for the GDC warranty extension that includes the hardware warranty was not too bad (traditionally just under 1/10 the cost of a new equivalent server). However, to put it back into warranty is at least a year penalty. I have, normally, not had a problem selling that warranty. Most of our GDC servers that no longer have a warranty are due to GDC dropping that option for the SX-2001A and SX-2000A/R. I think the finger in your eye approach of having a daily "nag" about the warranty being expired, with no way to turn it off besides paying a ransom fee for "Software Warranty" is bad practice. The software warranty price is often a bad value, particularly on mature product where the software updates are far less frequent. What you are paying for is for the possibility that they come out with a software update that also happens to fix a problem you are experiencing or a feature you might want.

Dolby's extended warranty is significantly cheaper however Dolby caps theirs at 5-years total warranty (2-years are available past the initial 3-years). GDC has, traditionally, offered full hardware warranty options for any server that is still in production so you could get extended warranty to push that server's coverage out to 10 years or so...but they have also given short-notice on the discontinuation of not only warranty options but also parts/repair of discontinued servers (6-months to a year). Dolby, traditionally, ensures that they can support a product, at least, 3-years past the end of production and gives, upon announcement of a product's discontinuation, how long they will support it with parts and repairs.

You are overlooking that the software warranty also includes Tech support. So if your Tech is unavailable to come out, then having GDC remote in to do a repair reset or replace a cert actually just saved you money over the cost of the service call.

[Steve Guttag]

I haven't overlooked anything...the other server companies, and in particular, Dolby as a "3rd Party" server company don't charge you for their tech support. GDC also locks their logs (the only one, that we deal with, that does that. Christie did on the their original S1 projectors (CP2000S) but those are the only ones. We, support our customers and only get a manufacturer involved if it is something we can't handle.

You've come a long way from poking fun at Dolby for charging for software updates (that were 1/3 what GDC now charges) to embracing what just GDC now practices.

[Marcel Birgelen]

You are overlooking that the software warranty also includes Tech support. So if your Tech is unavailable to come out, then having GDC remote in to do a repair reset or replace a cert actually just saved you money over the cost of the service call.

I get that you like GDC and you have a good working relationship with them. Nothing wrong about it. I'm generally pleased with Barco products, but I loathe their piss-poor component warranty of just 90 days on whatever item you get from them, no matter if it's a rubber seal for a few cents or a light engine for as much as a decent new car. We know they use this strategy in order to sell extended warranty services and I call them out for doing so. Does that change the situation? Probably not, because who am I? But when the industry at large starts calling them out on it, maybe stuff will change.

So, you can't really be all dandy with GDC's policy regarding "software maintenance", at least not if you're entirely honest about it, or can you?

Because, to the contrary of hardware, software doesn't rot. If my software requires "maintenance", this is because it was faulty to begin with. If you delivered me faulty products, no matter if it's the software or the hardware itself that's acting up, I demand from you that you fix this for free, because you screwed up. If you put in a certificate that expires way before the hardware ever became due for replacement, you fix it for me, with or without "software maintenance contract". If not, I consider your behavior extremely douchebaggy and I won't withhold my opinion about that to any of my and your (potential) customers.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

I haven't overlooked anything...the other server companies, and in particular, Dolby as a "3rd Party" server company don't charge you for their tech support. GDC also locks their logs (the only one, that we deal with, that does that. Christie did on the their original S1 projectors (CP2000S) but those are the only ones. We, support our customers and only get a manufacturer involved if it is something we can't handle.

You've come a long way from poking fun at Dolby for charging for software updates (that were 1/3 what GDC now charges) to embracing what just GDC now practices.

Dolby's support was great under Sam and Lonnie... Then. after they left. it went down hill. If the issue you were calling about wasn't on the list that was looked upon, then you had to figure it out your self. Once Mike Renlund went to work there then things got much better again. I have never had Dolby offer to remote in to look at one of their servers, and customers that tried to get help almost always got frustrated. Several quit buying the product because of that. Dolby told one of our customers at Showewst when SRD was released that they probably couldn't afford them. I won't mention the Dolby higher up that said that. As far as GDC logs being locked... you just need a certain program to read them,.. but I never bothered with it because I generally get an answer within 30 minutes ,7 days a week. Today, I would sell either companies product, but the customers that got a taste if the IMS hate the GUI..

[Leo Enticknap]

If my software requires "maintenance", this is because it was faulty to begin with.

Not necessarily. Some software/firmware updates add new functionality. An example would be the DSS update that added support for sending automation cues to, and reading the fader level from, a CP950, or Barco updates that add support for newly released models of lamp and lens. Many of the changes in software/firmware updates are fixes for bugs caused by errors or omissions in the original programming (which I agree, should be provided by manufacturers free of charge), but not all.

I have never had Dolby offer to remote in to look at one of their servers...

I have, several times. Last time was a couple of months ago, when Reneh spent 2-3 hours on Teamviewer, to help me figure out why an IMS3000 wouldn't sync to a QNAP external NAS box. All the Dolby techs I've worked with have been more than willing to look at servers, TMSes and audio processors remotely when the need arises, in my experience.

[Marcel Birgelen]

Not necessarily. Some software/firmware updates add new functionality. An example would be the DSS update that added support for sending automation cues to, and reading the fader level from, a CP950, or Barco updates that add support for newly released models of lamp and lens. Many of the changes in software/firmware updates are fixes for bugs caused by errors or omissions in the original programming (which I agree, should be provided by manufacturers free of charge), but not all.

There is a distinctive difference between bug-fixes and new features.

I'm fully aware that I can't expect new features for free, even if that simply includes "forward compatibility" with new devices that didn't exist during the release. But a bug is a defect. The thing isn't doing what it's supposed to do and therefore a bug should be fixed for free, just like any manufacturing or design defect should be, especially if the bug is impairing the functionality as advertised.

Many manufacturers tend to roll both bug-fixes and new features into combined software updates, but that's because the logistics of delivering this as a single package usually is cheaper than delivering those as separate packages and potentially maintaining different software branches. Yet, that's not my problem. I know I'm only entitled to the bug fixes, not to new goodies. If they choose to combine it, great! But that's no excuse to make bug-fixes a payable option.

[Steve Guttag]

My experience with any semi-recent incarnation of Dolby Tech Support has been pretty much outstanding. My experience with GDC tech support has always been outstanding. The fact you don't see much turnover in those tech support positions tells you something too. As for a program to read the locked file...prove it. Yes there is obviously a way to unlock the file or tech support wouldn't be able to work with it but they do not have, like Barco (and Christie) provides, a diagnostics package reader (log reader). The lock their files.

I don't disagree about the IMS UI...it is rough though I'm quite used to it now but it isn't Show Manager. I'm not a super fan of the SR-1000's web UI either and really dislike their dashboard (something the IMS did get right...on the IMS...you get a very good overview of the server in a quick glance). I'll take the IMS Web UI over the Doremi original UI...that was a collection of parts.

Since we're talking about certificates here...while you can get a GDC certificate, you do have to provide a bit of information first and it isn't user or technician accessible...like it is for everyone else. Some projectors, like Barco can retrieve it for you as can some TMS systems. But why does it have to be extra hard and require a special request? Just provide a download for them. They are of no value if you don't have the actual server.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

My experience with any semi-recent incarnation of Dolby Tech Support has been pretty much outstanding. My experience with GDC tech support has always been outstanding. The fact you don't see much turnover in those tech support positions tells you something too. As for a program to read the locked file...prove it. Yes there is obviously a way to unlock the file or tech support wouldn't be able to work with it but they do not have, like Barco (and Christie) provides, a diagnostics package reader (log reader). The lock their files.

I don't disagree about the IMS UI...it is rough though I'm quite used to it now but it isn't Show Manager. I'm not a super fan of the SR-1000's web UI either and really dislike their dashboard (something the IMS did get right...on the IMS...you get a very good overview of the server in a quick glance). I'll take the IMS Web UI over the Doremi original UI...that was a collection of parts.

Since we're talking about certificates here...while you can get a GDC certificate, you do have to provide a bit of information first and it isn't user or technician accessible...like it is for everyone else. Some projectors, like Barco can retrieve it for you as can some TMS systems. But why does it have to be extra hard and require a special request? Just provide a download for them. They are of no value if you don't have the actual server.

I actually heard back from GDC today about the certificates. The expiration dates are pretty much the same. All one has to do is to be sure the firmware is up to date and GDC will remote in and load a new Media Block certificate. Much the same way they do it when the certificate in the server has to be matched after a media block replacement. Pretty simple...

[Justin Hamaker]

Another follow-up: a full description can be found in the link, but I resolved the 487 and 489 errors by logging into the Enigma board using the TI ICP and Enigma Control Program. I didn't do anything special, just entered the projector's IP and connected.