NEC NC2000C Bad Certificate Error

[Justin Hamaker]

Booted up my projectors after being off for a few months. Left them on overnight to charge the board battery. When I came in the next day one of them was throwing a Bad Certificate error.

Event 8187 : (ASM) LinkOpened
Status : Unread
EventID : urn:uuid:126588f2-3dce-41bf-b634-d9ef3404e6a2
Time : 2021-01-21T08:34:47+00:00
DeviceSourceID : cYLRV5hPZHTUTgsxGZv2lXW1nlE=
DeviceConnectedID :
CertFormatError : Bad Certificat

Any input on what this is and how to resolve it. (please please please don't say bricked board!!!!)

[Carsten Kurz]

Justin, you should and could have known that you must power up your projectors/servers regularly during the shutdown.

http://www.film-tech.com/vbb/forum/m...ing-a-shutdown

I assume this is a bricked enigma/link decryptor board. What server do you use with that projector?

[Marcel Birgelen]

Like Carsten assumed, I'm also afraid it's a bricked enigma board... Recovering a lost certificate isn't something you can do on your own.

It's really important to keep your expensive stuff powered or at least to power it up every week or so. Best is even to play some content on it every now and then.

[Dave Macaulay]

Although I have never seen this, the ICP cert battery may have dies causing it to lose its certificate... but a dead Enigma link decryptor module is more likely. There is no process to recover a bricked Enigma... and although maybe there will be a way someday, at present a dead ICP is likewise unrecoverable. Barco does have some used ICP stock but I don't know whether they are salvaged good ones or have had the battery replaced and certs installed. No idea about NEC. Both the LD and ICP are rather expensive to replace. Getting a super auction deal on a used projector could be cheaper than either board new.
And, naturally, ICP boards and Enigma LD modules can not be interchanged between projector makes: NEC ones only work in an NEC projector, Barco & Christie same thing.

[Steve Guttag]

BTW...for NEC, it is best to provide the error number.

[Leo Enticknap]

Agreed. It's either an Enigma, the ICP, or an IMB. Either the error numbers, or the detail from the status page in DCC (info > status), should enable us to tell you which of those it is, as so:

DCC_statuspage.PNG

Where it says "There are no errors" in this screenshot, it should give the info we need in Justin's DCC. Note that the projector will have to be on (not in standby mode) to capture all the information needed.

Shameless hustle alert: if it is a bricked Enigma or ICP, we are California-based and have replacements in stock. Please contact sales {at} movingimagetech.com for a quote, if you'd like one. If it's an IMB certificate gone bad, it'll be a case of returning it to the manufacturer for repair. If it's a Dolby, Doremi, or GDC IMB, we can help to arrange that, too - service {at} movingimagetech.com .

[Gordon McLeod]

At one NEC training course NEC did say they could correct a lost certificate on returned boards. Dont know if they still

[Marcel Birgelen]

At one NEC training course NEC did say they could correct a lost certificate on returned boards. Dont know if they still

I'm pretty sure they can, since they can put them in there in the first place. The problem is their policies. While I can understand that the whole security chain would collapse if an end-user could re-certificate those boards themselves, I don't think selling new replacement boards at premium prices, where the fix is just side-loading a new certificate, is the most ethical approach. Maybe the suppliers of DCI equipment can show some grace here, given the global situation and the dire situation the entire industry is in and offer a reasonable solution for the re-certification of any equipment that lost their certificates due to prolonged downtime during the shutdown period...

[Leo Enticknap]

I'm guessing that NEC can re-cert one of their NEC-badged Dolby IMSes. But Enigmas and ICPs are TI boards, so presumably only TI could do that?

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

I have lost two of them, The first in an NC-2000 during changing the battery. NEC thought the super capacitor may have been bad on that one and it was a very early NC-2000. The second was in an NC3240 at a drive in. It was lost due to a nearby lightening strike. The NC-3240 board booted ok, but threw a mess of errors once up.

[Carsten Kurz]

I'm guessing that NEC can re-cert one of their NEC-badged Dolby IMSes. But Enigmas and ICPs are TI boards, so presumably only TI could do that?

According to secret communication between someone and TI, not even TI can do it. They employ another party for manufacturing, and serialisation can only take place at their manufacturing plant. Makes no difference, because neither TI nor that third party will answer your request. As it stands currently, both a dead ICP and a dead Enigma will remain dead forever from an exhibitor or integrators perspective.

[Leo Enticknap]

So if Justin's certificate error is being caused by an Enigma or ICP with a lost certificate, then sadly, he needs a new one. We've certainly received no indication from any manufacturer that they could be willing or able to re-cert either, nor from any IMB or IMS manufacturer who is willing to waive or reduce the fee for recertification. As could be predicted, we are now seeing an uptick in these cases, and are anticipating a surge when NYC and LA theaters are allowed to reopen, despite the education campaign we launched when the shutdowns started last March.

If I had to guess, ICPs will likely be a significant problem. Early Series 2 projectors are now coming up to a decade old (the stated service life of the soldered on, not field replaceable battery), and several months powered down will likely finish them off.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

nor from any IMB or IMS manufacturer who is willing to waive or reduce the fee for recertification. As could be predicted, we are now seeing an uptick in these cases, and are anticipating a surge when NYC and LA theaters are allowed to reopen, despite the education campaign we launched when the shutdowns started last March.

This is why it is important to keep your GDC warranty extended where and if possible. Their warranty includes reinstalling the Cert if needed, and I have had them reduce the cost on many occasions as well for out of warranty units if the warranty is renewed at the same time.. Manufacturers need to start putting battery level monitors in the Admin panels of these devices.

[Carsten Kurz]

Even without a warranty, Dolby/Doremi are willing to reserialize a media block for a 'modest' fee between 300 and 400 US$. And I think that is somehow adequate for the kind of job and relevance involved. It is completely acceptable that the media block has to be shipped to the factory for this to happen.

And, really, a media block with it's key security functions of key storage, decryption and watermarking IS the core of the DCI security model. Link decryptor and ICP security are certainly not insignificant, but play a much lesser role.

Again, I brought this up at some of the recent ISDCF meetings, but, they were not bothered much. Probably because the ISDCF does represent manufacturers much more than exhibitors. Manufacturers are just fine with selling new Enigmas and ICPs. Some other ISDCF members did not understand the issue, some think it's okay having to buy a new 'module' in that price range after 10 years or so. I guess they would think different about this if their car mechanic would tell them they had to buy a new car because the battery died.

[Leo Enticknap]

The cost of GDC warranty extensions is so high that many users feel that it's worth the risk of not buying them (especially the owners of older SX-3000s, and rack servers with IMBs or HD-SDI media blocks). Industry conventions prevent me from posting actual figures on a publicly accessible website, but one customer I dealt with recently had been quoted an annual renewal figure which was such that between one and two years' warranty extension amounted to the cost of a brand new IMS. In other words, if his out-of-warranty IMS survives for two years, he's ahead. He told me that this is a calculated risk that he's willing to take. The Dolby IMS costs a bit more to buy initially, but when I'm asked why, I flag up one of the reasons as being that it's significantly cheaper to get them recertificated if they're out of warranty.

I think what annoys so many people about the ICP is that there is no DCI rule forcing the battery to be non-rechargeable and non-replaceable, combined with the high replacement cost of the board. In many projectors, it is the second most expensive part, after the light engine. It was good to see Barco address this in the ICP-D, by making the battery user replaceable.