ICP cert batteries depleting

[Steve Guttag]

I have not found V+ to show up on any easy connector...it goes directly to the resistor.

[Marcel Birgelen]

Yeah, that's what I was afraid of, would've been too easy...

Still, you expect there to be one common positive power-bar behind the battery. Possibly with some small voltage drop as caused by the resistor and probably at least something like a diode somewhere...

[Carsten Kurz]

Three ICPs from 2012 and 2013, in Barco/Kinoton projectors (low usage profile): 2.98V, 2.92V, 2.89V cert battery voltage. Looks reasonably safe to me for the time being.

[Steve Kraus]

NC1200C owner here. Build date mid 2012.

Just to clarify, does the certificate memory ONLY get powered from the permanently mounted battery? I presume that must be the case since no one has suggested that a solution for old ICP boards would be to just leave the electronics on forever. If only it was that easy, right?

I know the special pandemic instructions said to power up the projector periodically. I did exactly that and even rigged a way to get power to the projector remotely and then boot it up via DCC for a few hours each week. So what is it that got recharged by doing so? That is with full power-up. What gets power when in standby?

Any news in this area such as more research on dead ICPs?

[Carsten Kurz]

Steve - it is easy to measure the cert battery voltage. While Leo has experienced one ICP dying with a drained cert battery, I have now measured quite a few ICPs still at safe voltages. I suggest you pull the ICP and measure the cert (soldered-in) battery voltage. If that is still in the 2.8-3 volt range, you shouldn't be nervous. You need to clear tamper error after pulling and re-insertig the ICP, but I guess you have a tech at hand.
Now, while measuring the battery voltage is really easy technically, that battery still is a delicate part of the ICP - make sure you use a modern high-impedance digital multimeter, and make absolutely sure it is wired/set to DC voltage measurement. If you use it in current measure mode accidentally - BOOM!

[Steve Kraus]

But sooner or later it will fail. Is the voltage an accurate predictor of when that will be? Does it decline steadily?

So as far as anyone knows, the cert memory is on battery at all times whether the projector is on or off? What was the pandemic advice about powering up periodically for? Or was that just for the clock?

Seems like there is a big pile of money awaiting the person who learns how to replace the battery even if they had to eat the cost of a few ICPs that they messed up. How about a second battery even if space limitations require it to be hanging off on a cable?

[Leo Enticknap]

Is the voltage an accurate predictor of when that will be? Does it decline steadily?

Sadly, for diagnostic purposes, no. The cert battery is a BR3032. They have a less linear discharge characteristic than the more common (and cheaper) CRs. A CR battery will gradually lose voltage in a more linear fashion, assuming constant discharge at a steady rate. A BR will deliver close to its full rated voltage until near the end of its life, and then jump off a cliff. This sheet has more info. A BR is also more reliable when operating in a higher ambient temperature, which I'm guessing is a big part of the reason why they are used on ICPs and some IMBs.

BR_vs_CR.jpg

[Carsten Kurz]

Steve - do yourself a favour - have your's measured, this also helps others to develop a better estimate. It is not that these cells simply drop out over night.

BTW - the pandemic shutdown recommendations dealt with all types of gear, and, in the case of series 2 projectors, it was more important for the rechargeable cells on Enigma/link decryptors (HD-SDI connections) to keep projectors powered. Unpowered/uncharged, they have a really short lifespan (a few months), and, just as an ICP, can not be revived (but cost a little less - if at all available as spares by now).
These 'keep your equipment powered' tips were not targeted at ICP cert cells.

At least in germany, a lot of series 2 projectors are replaced by laser projectors currently. I hope someone salvages the ICPs and Enigmas from them before they die with drained batteries in storage.

[Leo Enticknap]

We keep Enigmas that we acquire when a customer upgrades to an IMS-type server, and have rigged up an external charger for them. We usually sell around one every couple of months to replace one that died as a result of being allowed to discharge. Anecdotally, they seem to be OK for around 4-6 months unpowered.

[Steve Kraus]

Thank you.

In summary, my takeaway is that:

1. Cert memory is always on battery no matter if projector is powered or not.

2. Powering projector recharges enigma battery only.

3. Projector on standby does what? Nothing??

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

But sooner or later it will fail. Is the voltage an accurate predictor of when that will be? Does it decline steadily?

So as far as anyone knows, the cert memory is on battery at all times whether the projector is on or off? What was the pandemic advice about powering up periodically for? Or was that just for the clock?

Seems like there is a big pile of money awaiting the person who learns how to replace the battery even if they had to eat the cost of a few ICPs that they messed up. How about a second battery even if space limitations require it to be hanging off on a cable?

If my memory serves me right, the Cert battery was designed to last a minimum of 12 years and will likely last 15. Just monitor the voltage as described above to be on the safe side. Don't know if you will even be able to buy an ICP after 15 years because semiconductors do go obsolete. But with so many S2 out there and the industry is already in Series 4... I would certainly hope so. Perhaps check in with Leo every once in a while to see about ICP availability. Some of the projectors I installed were very early units that are already 12 years old.

[Torsten Juergens]

In 2009, NEC stated the battery life as follows:

ICP PWB
- Certificate Key, battery lasts for 10 years.
- RTC Battery Life 6 Years

Enigma PWB on SIB
- Certificate Keys, battery lasts for 6 Months when not powered.

Did you see the Enigma Recharge Battery Connector on the Enigma PWB in the top right corner?
Can't you use it beyond the lifetime of the battery to keep the certificates alive?

[Steve Guttag]

That connector and charging is nasty. Nothing lights up on the Enigma to let you know everything is charging okay. I've had Enigmas die that were, in theory, charged. I now only charge them on an SDI board, powered where I can see the LEDs lit up. I charge on 4-month intervals rather than 6 to ensure I catch them long before they go flat.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

I have quite a few S2 NEC's going on 13 years, but everyone with those older projectors has been alerted, as I stopped doing any physical booth work in 2018 and turned it over to someone else. Hopefully that someone else is on top of it too. Seems to me that replacing ICP's as preventitive maintainance might become a reality in the near future.

[Steve Guttag]

I hope, in 2023 to see if I can successfully do a battery swap on the ICP and offer that as a service. if so, that could save $1000s/projector of needless ICP changes. Really, the OEMs should have set up an RX for ICPs that JUST need certificate batteries.