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Netflix doing away with DVDs...will a lot of movies be "lost" forever?

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  • Netflix doing away with DVDs...will a lot of movies be "lost" forever?

    This article is from the Washington Post (Link below, although probably behind a paywall).

    I've never used Netflix's DVD service, but we subscribe at home - partly because my wife likes it, although I enjoy the comedy specials. When I first signed on, I thought it was going to be "every movie ever made" available on there. I remember my first search was Tom Hanks - I forget what movie I wanted to watch, but at that time the only thing of his that came up was "The 'Burbs." Uhhh, no. So I learned fast that it was more like "a scratching of the surface of movies" and it's still that way today, except they've glopped on their home-made "content" that's mostly crap, and a bunch of has-been TV shows, some of which aren't aging all that well.


    For movie lovers, there’s a darker side to Netflix ending DVD rentals
    By Ty Burr
    April 21, 2023 at 8:21 a.m. EDT

    Ty Burr is a film critic and the author of the movie recommendation newsletter Ty Burr’s Watch List.

    When Netflix announced on Tuesday that it would be shuttering its DVD rental-by-mail operation — the business that gave the streaming video giant its start a quarter-century ago — the immediate response was to mourn the latest icon of pop culture to sadly but definitively outlive its time. Remember those little red envelopes? How intensely 2005! Okay, now toss them onto the dust heap with the BlackBerrys, iPod Nanos and “Guitar Hero.”

    Yet there’s a larger and more troubling story behind what, on the face of it, is a sensible business decision. Yes, sales of DVDs and Blu-ray discs have plummeted in recent years, from 6.1 billion in worldwide sales in 2011 to 1.2 billion a decade later. Over the same period, streaming subscriptions have seen an increase of 1,231 percent. The writing’s on the wall: How are you going to keep ’em down on the DVD farm after they’ve seen everything Netflix and Amazon Prime Video have to offer?

    The fallacy behind this idea is the belief that video on demand really doesoffer everything — every movie ever shot, every TV show ever produced — when the vast majority of films and series are not and have never been available at the touch of a remote and a $2.99 streaming rental. By contrast, a much larger percentage of entertainment history has made its way to various forms of physical media over the decades since VHS beat out Betamax and DVD subsequently subsumed videotape. You could easily buy or rent those titles, first at your local Blockbuster and then via the Netflix rental-by-mail company that drove Blockbuster into bankruptcy.

    With the disappearance of that business model, physical media and entire swaths of cinema history come closer to winking out of the average consumer’s consciousness, and that’s bad news for the public in general and film lovers in particular. First, let’s consider the individual titles that are in danger of being forgotten — that are on DVD or Blu-ray but not available anywhere on demand. Remember “Cocoon,” Ron Howard’s 1985 drama of lovable geriatrics and benevolent aliens? I hope you do, because it’s not streaming anywhere and never has been. “Short Cuts” (1993), Robert Altman’s blistering, all-star adaptation of nine Raymond Carver stories? Sorry, not available.

    Martin Scorsese’s “New York, New York” (1977), with Robert De Niro and Liza Minnelli? Nope. The 1972 Michael Caine-Laurence Olivier mystery thriller “Sleuth”? Nope. “Henry & June” (1990), the first movie to be given an NC-17 rating? Teen cult classic “Pump Up the Volume” (1990)? The 1983 Meryl Streep bio-drama “Silkwood”? Nope, nope and nope.

    Once you get into the back catalogue of the studio era, the situation’s even more dire. A scalding little film noir such as “Act of Violence” (1948), directed by a newcomer named Fred Zinneman and starring an impossibly young Janet Leigh and a terrifying Robert Ryan, begs to be discovered by a new generation but will languish unwatched and forgotten. Even a bona fide Best Picture winner such as Alfred Hitchcock’s “Rebecca” (1940) is nowhere to be legally found, although the inferior 2020 remake is right there on Netflix.

    This is bad news not just for film culture but for cultural history. A movie that is no longer seen ceases to exist, and so does the society it reflects — its values, beliefs, meanings. As streaming video becomes the norm and DVD and Blu-ray shrink to an audience of connoisseurs, collectors, and Criterion junkies (guilty as charged), the past recedes to a curio, and our entertainment choices constrict to an endless and eternally profitable Now. Sure, you can find many otherwise unavailable titles on YouTube (including, for the time being, the 1940 “Rebecca”) — but mostly in bootleg prints that quickly get whack-a-moled into oblivion by corporate gatekeepers.

    In a sense, this is a return to business as usual. We forget that for the bulk of film history, movies were junked after they completed their theatrical runs — it’s why an estimated half of all American films made before 1950 and over 90 percent made before 1929 are lost forever. The arrival of television in the 1950s introduced the novel idea of an aftermarket for movies, and the VHS revolution of the 1970s and ’80s brokered the shocking notion that the plebes in the audience could rent or even own their own copy of a beloved film to watch as often as they wanted.

    Which, in retrospect, was a terrible threat to the copyright holders of those films — the studios that made them and the multinational entertainment conglomerates that gobbled the studios up and now hustle for your monthly subscription dollars. Netflix and Amazon Prime, yes, but also HBO Max (Warner Bros.), Peacock (Universal), Paramount Plus, Disney Plus and all the rest. They own the movies that are this country’s cultural gift to the world, and they are happy to make you pay for them over and over.

    Or vanish them entirely. HBO Max is in the midst of a merger with the Discovery Channel — and, to reduce a crushing bit of debt, is removing highly regarded series such as “Westworld” from the service. Until now, HBO Max has been one of the better subscription services in terms of making an immense library of older titles available, but that is expected to change once the service is rebranded in a few months to — ironically enough — Max.

    In retrospect, the shuttering of Netflix’s DVD business may someday be seen as the end of a few halcyon decades in which consumers — the people for whom these entertainments and artworks were ostensibly made — had control of the steering wheel. You’ll still be able to find DVDs and Blu-rays on Amazon and at your local library, a shrinking selection for a shrinking audience. But the choices available on demand for everyone going forward — including an unborn viewership that won’t know any better — may leave the bulk of our media-culture past out in the cold.

    In fact, maybe it’s time for the industry to retire the phrase “video on demand.” After all, how can consumers be expected to demand movies they don’t know exist?

    Sure, the red envelope business was old-fashioned. But what about all the films unavailable to stream?

  • #2
    I didn't even know they still had this service running in the U.S. I remember Amazon pulling out of the DVD/BR rental market around here back in 2017 or 2018. The irony is that the mailorder DVD rental services of both Netflix and Amazon had a lot more content than anything that was ever available on streaming. They may not have had EVERY movie, but ALMOST every movie that ever ran somewhere in a commercial cinema. That also was their strong point, compared to the brick and mortar rental stores, that usually only carried a limited selection, besides the horrendous late-fees that is... I still remember bringing in a prime movie a week or two late, because I had to go on an unplanned emergency job across the other end of the pond and had no time to drop it off at the rental place, besides that, I had other stuff on my mind. The late fee I had to pay could buy you the deluxe DVD box twice over... it felt like extortion. I guess that's also one of the reasons why that business model eventually failed.

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    • #3
      This is deja vu for me....as many decades ago I was told of how a certain film depot took thousands of old prints that were rarely circulated, loaded them up on barges....

      and dumped them all into the Pacific ocean.

      Allegedly, no attempts were made to archive even a single copy of any of the rare prints, so literally hundreds of titles were now gone forever thanks to a stupid decision by them.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Marcel Birgelen View Post
        The irony is that the mailorder DVD rental services of both Netflix and Amazon had a lot more content than anything that was ever available on streaming. They may not have had EVERY movie, but ALMOST every movie that ever ran somewhere in a commercial cinema.
        The wonders of licensing! Once a DVD is bought, it can be loaned out forever. Streaming content is, however, licensed for a limited period, so it disappears when the license expires.

        I'd really like to see Amazon or Netflix get a perpetual license to content and pay the copyright owner each time the movie is played instead of having to pay for a year when no one watched it. The problem is not that they are running out of storage space, it's unreasonable licensing terms. Copyright owners could get a perpetual revenue stream instead of it disappearing when no one wants to pay for another annual license.

        Harold


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        • #5
          Netflix is the last streaming service I would ever use to watch a movie, or a special show. I don't even own a Tee Vee, but there is one in the house.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Mark Gulbrandsen View Post
            I don't even own a Tee Vee, but there is one in the house.
            I agree, owning your own TV is so 2022, so you decided to switch to one of those monthly subscription TVs?

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            • #7
              Ironically, we appear to be going back to the pre-VHS days, when your access to movies was determined by what theaters and TV broadcasters chose to play. As others have pointed out, the ownership of physical media guarantees, to a certain extent, ongoing access to the content on it (though with some gotchas: if you own a bunch of V2000 tapes or 9.5mm film reels - let's say with optical audio, just to add an additional challenge - gaining access is somewhat easier said than done); and crucially, takes decisions about access out of the control of the publisher. Even if you don't have an in perpetuity license for home viewing per the letter of the law, you effectively do in real life.

              I once "bought" a book on Amazon Kindle, and when I tried to read it again several years later, was unable to, because Amazon's license to distribute the book that way had expired, and the rights owner refused to renew it. After complaining to Amazon, they refunded me what I'd paid them, but the moral of the story is that even if you 'buy" something on a streaming service, it can still disappear. From that point on I have only made Kindle and Prime Video purchases of content that I am at least 99.9% convinced that I won't want to read or view again, and only with "no rush shipping" reward points - never actual, real money.

              A somewhat morbid point, but nevertheless another reason why I no longer "buy" streaming media with actual money: when you pass away and your Amazon account is closed down, all those book and media "purchases" will disappear, too - you can't leave them to anybody, as you can physical media.

              As for Marcel's remark, I can see this happening: pay for, say, two years of Netfux up front and get a free TV. The firmware in it will be fixed such that the thing will cease to work if you let your subscription expire.

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              • #8
                The notion of every content owner having its own "service" is laughable, these days, because they can't create (and suitably promote) desirable content fast enough to keep subscribers satisfied. The only real need for a middleman like Amazon or Peacock or Hulu or whatever, is to organize the content so you can find it. Otherwise you'd have to search the whole internet to find out who owns that old John Wayne movie you want to watch. And of course the old same argument against carte-blanche cable TV is still there -- if people aren't paying for the whole 500 channels, the ones hardly anyone watches will go under. The same thing is happening now with the streamer subscriptions. People realize they aren't watching anything on some service and cancel. Maybe there should be a requirement where they don't charge you if you don't watch anything in a given month.

                The biggest and DUMBEST mistake the streamers ever did was allowing password sharing. They should have clamped right down on that from the very beginning, but they were too busy popping champagne corks and crowing about how they were "the future" of entertainment. Now that the password genie is out of the bottle, they'll have a hard time cramming it back in, although they could just all agree that password-sharing is not allowed starting on some date, announce the hell out of it and then really enforce it. What are people going to do....hack their way around it? Oh wait, that's probably what would happen. But it works on Amazon. I have a one-user music account, and if I turn it on at home, it shuts off at work after a "do you want to listen here?" message. No muss no fuss.

                Someday maybe there'll be one clearinghouse called "All-The-Stuff.com" (probably owned by Amazon, or the government, once Amazon takes that over) that'll have everything ever released on it, and every content owner decides how much they want per stream, and the clearinghouse passes that amount on while charging the consumer that much plus a little more for themselves. It'll be just like taxes. And hey, if the government owns it, they won't care how much money it loses.
                Last edited by Mike Blakesley; 05-02-2023, 08:53 PM.

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                • #9
                  Here is a bigger problem. I'm sure every participant on this forum has a pretty significant collection of movies on optical disc formats. What about the companies who make standalone DVD/Blu-ray players, or optical disc drives for computers, gaming consoles, etc? These pieces of hardware do not remain functional forever. Honestly, the quality of consumer electronics these days has reached a pretty "disposable" level. Fewer models of DVD players and Blu-ray players are being made. Some companies have abandoned the product line entirely. We could end up in a situation where a bunch of us have dozens or even hundreds of movies in DVD or Blu-ray format that we can no longer play due to no new hardware being available.

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                  • #10
                    That's why I MakeMKV-ed all my BluRays and remaining DVDs and store the data on a bunch of NASes. While this hardware isn't forever either, transfering the files from one storage medium, while time consuming, is usually quite trivial. Optical media will eventually also degrade, CD and DVD rot is a thing and with BluRay still being a somewhat recent thing, nobody has a clue how this format will stand the test of time, even if you'll be able to get hold on a working player in the future. Data encryption also is a problem and it's present on almost any modern BluRay. Once we start losing access to certain keys, getting access to the unencrypted data may prove challenging to impossible. Luckily, there are known ways to remove the encryption from most BluRays...

                    I think the biggest challenge will be keeping the underlying encoding formats alive, not so much the data itself. MPEG4 HEVC for example, is a complicated beast and not easily reverse-engineered once all the knowledge of the format starts to fade away. So, the data will probably need the occasional transcoding to keep up with modern file formats, but for now that's not a real worry.

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                    • #11
                      I can still remember a lot of movies that were released in decades like the 1990's and 2000's (as well as earlier decades). But there is a lot of movies that were released in more recent years that I've completely forgotten about. It's as if they never existed.

                      The business of selling movies as a physical retail item in brick and mortar stores is almost dead. 20 years ago there were lots of retail stores that specialized in selling music, books and movies. Not anymore. Today the "video store" is the movies section in Walmart or Target. The combination of online shopping and streaming have killed everything else. The extinction of those brick and mortar specialty stores cost the movie industry a pretty serious advertising platform.

                      Every video rental store would have one sheet posters of new releases displayed in their windows. The movie would have lots of cases stacked in rows on the shelves, probably along with standees, end caps, etc. That visual would sink into customers' heads. Back then any movie of significance would have two ad campaigns. There would be first campaign for the movie's theatrical release. The separate ad campaign for home video would launch months later. The ad campaigns for both platforms included a lot of newspaper and magazine advertising as well as TV commercials. Back then a movie could say visible to the general public for a long time. The advertising imagery of those movies would get stuck in people's heads.

                      Today a new movie can be completely forgotten in less than a year after it arrived on cinema screens. Movie studios don't have to buy as much advertising to promote a movie as they did in the past. That's only because they've merged the theatrical and home video eras of a movie's release into the same short period of time. The major studios put only basic efforts into their retail movie disc products, making it obvious they don't want to sell retail products anymore. But when it comes to advertising out of sight is out of mind.

                      The user interface in a streaming service is a shitty platform to tell people a movie still exists. None of these services have a master directory showing every title available in alphabetical order. We can't have anything simple like that. Instead customers get to scroll through row after row after row of just random crap. And it's not like I'm lacking other things to watch on TV at home. I've been dragging my feet at getting caught up with the HBO series Succession because I've been distracted too much by NBA and NHL playoffs as well as Major League Baseball.

                      If these goofy studio bosses manage to put commercial cinemas out of business then they'll really be screwed. The cinemas offer the only legit retail advertising presence left for movies.​

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                      • #12
                        That's why I MakeMKV-ed all my BluRays and remaining DVDs and store the data on a bunch of NASes.
                        How does that work? Does your NAS connect to your network? How do you access/play the content?

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                        • #13
                          I've got a Synology NAS connected to my home network with Plex Media Server on it and I'm using the Plex app on the smart TVs and mobile phones. This allows me to stream all my own content to all kinds of devices. Via VPN, I can even access it from abroad. I've recently upgraded to 1 GBit fiber, so watching a 4K movie over-the-internet stored at a NAS at home is no more a problem... even over 4G or 5G. Heck, the wife was watching a movie on said NAS over hotel-wifi lately...

                          Plex isn't free if you want to use the nice features, but there are also open source solutions, like the Kodi Project, you may have heard about those "Kodi boxes" that are often used by bootleggers. Well, Kodi itself is a legitimate so-called Media Center, but their plugin system is often used to turn it into the defacto software for a pirate-box, since it's open source and easily customizable. My problem with Kodi is that it takes me too much time to customize it for my likings and it also lacks support for LG SmartTVs.

                          If I really like a movie, series or particular music album, I still want to OWN it, so I buy a physical copy, but lugging around those isn't particularly practical anymore and I do want to have a backup, so I can still access what I legally bought an paid for, even if disc-rot sets in or the last player on earth that could play that particular format entered the eternal fields of digital oblivion.
                          Last edited by Marcel Birgelen; 05-31-2023, 09:33 AM. Reason: The grammer wasn't strong with this one...

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                          • #14
                            Another case where "Technology" is failing (or has failed) to improve life.

                            We did Netflix DVDs from before Netflix did streaming. I think we hit 1,000 disks rented. We dropped the service in the past couple of years because there seemed to be a lack of worthwhile releases or much of anything that we hadn't seen. We completely enjoyed all of the extras included with each disk.

                            I have a considerable collection of Sci-Fi DVDs as I would collect the movies that I felt had some (socially) redeeming value. Then Blu Ray came and completely devalued my collection of low-resolution movies. I bought an Oppo and we switched to Blu Ray. I could only replace a couple of movies from the Sci-Fi collection, well, because not everyone in the household apparently sees the quality difference. Now I get the 4K Dune without thinking and realize that my Oppo won't play it.

                            I stream Ultra HD with Vudu where I have a small collection of movies that I have purchased (some dups from the Sci-Fi DVD collection). But I assume that the day will come when all of those purchases without warning evaporate into the bit darkness. Loaded the digital code for Dune and watched there.

                            Look what has happened to music. There is no such thing as a music "collection" anymore. Not for the youngsters. Subscribe to something like Amazon Music and you can basically listen to anything anytime. It used to be fun to save up a little cash and pick through the albums in the record store for something new. I recently pulled out the turntable and put a new cartridge in just to experience my record collection again. I think the newest thing in vinyl I have is a Talking Heads album bought right after release. Maybe The Fixx?

                            But along the lines of movies being lost. There is music that never made it to streaming. I have some records that I doubt would come up on Amazon Music. I had "scanned" all of those albums to MP3s song by song a couple of decades ago, a summer's effort. But now the cool little devices for playing MP3s are rare. And, frankly, all the replacements for WinAmp don't come nearly as close to kicking the Llama's ass.

                            I agree with the thought that we are looping back to the pre-VCR period. One big difference however is that now the majority of content is commercials wherein they distribute entertainment breaks with segments of time compressed shows.



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                            • #15
                              These days if we run a private show for somebody, we get the blu-ray and convert it to DCP for the showing. I wonder if there will be any way to do that in the cloudy digital future?

                              All this makes me want to find a couple of blu-ray players and hoard them for later use when my current stuff kicks the bucket. Of course at my age (66) I don't have to worry about too many more generations of equipment and such, but still. The way things are moving, everything we know and love will probably be obsolete before the end of next month.

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