Announcement

**Leo Enticknap** · 04-16-2023, 09:29 AM

My guess would be that if there was absolutely no difference between the 35mm and the 70mm version (even a logo at the start), then they'd use the same audio package and serial number, but even that one distributor logo would trigger the need for a separate one. I do remember that a set of 70mm discs for The Master wouldn't work when I once played a 35mm print of it (after ingesting them, the XD-10 just did nothing when the print played), but the same audio played fine when I played the same movie on the same projectors in a 70mm print a few months later.

**Andrea Rossi** · 04-16-2023, 11:44 AM

Thanks for your answer Leo; I think the same; as the DTS 70mm disc of The Master didn't work with the 35mm film, they must have different serial numbers.

Vertigo 35mm and 70mm are bit-by-bit identical EXCEPT one has *ENG as language, and another has ENGLISH; as they share the same serial, but trailer files are different, I guess that when 35mm disc is played with 70mm film and vice versa they should play well, except trailers that have different serials.

updated list of (possible) DTS 70mm and DTS 70mm Special Venue not included in the known 14xxx and 20xxx serials:

Code:

Serial Title (Year) Type
 
 2354 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968) DTS 70mm ?
????? Aeronauts, The (2019) DTS 70mm
 1713 Armageddon (1998) DTS 70mm (IF it shares the serial with 35mm)
????? Babylon (2022) DTS 70mm
12117 Batman vs. Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) DTS 70mm
????? Bible… in the beginning, The (1966) DTS 70mm (Special Venue?)
????? Boogie Nights (1997) DTS 70mm
 1096 Doctor Zhivago (1965) DTS 70mm ?
????? Faubourg 36 (2008) DTS 70mm (Special Venue?)
????? Flying Clipper - Traumreise unter weissen Segeln (1962) DTS 70mm (Special Venue?)
 1653 Godzilla (1998) DTS 70mm Special Venue (IF it shares the serial with 35mm)
 1704 Gone with the Wind (1954) DTS 70mm ?
12075 Hateful Eight, The (2015) DTS 70mm
09570 Inception (2010) DTS 70mm (IF it shares the serial with 35mm)
 1331 Independence Day (1996) DTS 70mm (IF it shares the serial with 35mm)
12030 Inherent Vice (2014) DTS 70mm
12028 Interstellar (2014) DTS 70mm (IF it shares the serial with 35mm)
 2466 Lawrence of Arabia (1962) DTS 70mm & DTS 70mm Special Venue
 2915 Lord Jim (1965) DTS 70mm
 1500 Lost World: Jurassic Park, The (1997) DTS 70mm (IF it shares the serial with 35mm)
 11175 Master, The (2012) DTS 35mm
????? Master, The (2012) DTS 70mm
 1703 Mulan (1998) DTS 70mm (IF it shares the serial with 35mm)
 1044 My Fair Lady (1964) DTS 70mm Special Venue (IF it shares the serial with 35mm)
????? Nope (2022) DTS 70mm
 2545 Pearl Harbor (2001) DTS 70mm Special Venue (IF it shares the serial with 35mm)
 2962 Playtime (1967) DTS 70mm
????? Spartacus (1960) DTS 70mm (Special Venue?)
 1350 Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope - Special Edition (1997) DTS 70mm (IF it shares the serial with 35mm)
 1602 Titanic (1997) DTS 35mm
11131 Titanic (1997) DTS 70mm
 1608 Tomorrow Never Dies (1997) DTS 70mm (IF it shares the serial with 35mm)
 1357 Vertigo (1958) DTS 35mm
 1357 Vertigo (1958) DTS 70mm
 1785 Wizard Of Oz, The (1939) DTS 70mm ?

**Michael Zarits** · 04-16-2023, 02:48 PM

0-32767 5.1 DTS
32768-65535 DTS-ES

2001: A Space Odyssey SN 20952 for 8 track DTS (7.0 Mix)
The Master SN 11175 for 70mm (not sure about 35mm)

Originally posted by Andrea Rossi View Post

Vertigo 35mm and 70mm are bit-by-bit identical EXCEPT one has *ENG as language, and another has ENGLISH

ENGLISH at 0x3B is the old header format which was changed to *ENG around 2004 so that the XD10 can read a disc's language automatically. Each disc plays fine with either a 35mm or 70mm print (except trailers of course).

**Andrea Rossi** · 04-16-2023, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by Michael Zarits View Post

0-32767 5.1 DTS
32768-65535 DTS-ES

I'm aware of this distinction; still, the 6-track and 8-track releases are inside serials 00000-32767 - so not 5.1... maybe we can consider 00000-32767 = not DTS-ES!

2001: A Space Odyssey SN 20952 for 8 track DTS (7.0 Mix)

Thanks; you can find others here: http://www.film-tech.com/vbb/forum/d...elp-is-welcome

The Master SN 11175 for 70mm (not sure about 35mm)

As far as I know that serial is for 35mm; so, they may share serial, or use the same disc, or 11175 is for 70mm and 35mm has another one!

ENGLISH at 0x3B is the old header format which was changed to *ENG around 2004 so that the XD10 can read a disc's language automatically. Each disc plays fine with either a 35mm or 70mm print (except trailers of course).

I guess "around 2004" is referred to year, right?
Curious to know about other languages, as I've seen *SPNL for Spanish - that shoul have been *SPA according to ISO 639-2

**Michael Zarits** · 04-17-2023, 12:19 AM

Originally posted by Andrea Rossi View Post

... maybe we can consider 00000-32767 = not DTS-ES!

Yes right, all non DTS-ES.

Originally posted by Andrea Rossi View Post

As far as I know that serial is for 35mm; so, they may share serial, or use the same disc, or 11175 is for 70mm and 35mm has another one!

I actually thought the same but Leo mentioned that the 35mm print did not work with the discs came with 70mm. So either for 35mm they issued another serial or it was actually just reel 1 that does not play which is assigned as e.g. reel 13 on 35mm prints.

Originally posted by Andrea Rossi View Post

I guess "around 2004" is referred to year, right?
Curious to know about other languages, as I've seen *SPNL for Spanish - that shoul have been *SPA according to ISO 639-2

Yes, the year 2004. The 4th letter is for the language's dialect where *SPNL is Latin Spanish as there also exists *SPNC for Castilian Spanish.

ARABIC	ARB
ARAMAIC	ARM
BASQUE	BAS
BULGARIAN	BUL
CANTONESE	CAN
CATALAN	CAT
CROATIAN	CRO
CZECH	CZC
DANISH	DAN
DUTCH	DUT
ENGLISH	ENG
FINNISH	FIN
FLEMISH	FLM
FRENCH	FRN
FRENCH CANADIAN	FRNC
GERMAN	GER
GERMAN SWISS	GERS
GREEK	GRK
HEBREW	HEB
HUNGARIAN	HUN
ICELANDIC	ICE
INDONESIAN	IND
ITALIAN	ITL
JAPANESE	JAP
KOREAN	KOR
MALAY	MAL
MANDARIN	MAN
NORWEGIAN	NOR
POLISH	POL
PORTUG. BRAZIL	PORB
PORTUGUESE	POR
ROMANIAN	ROM
RUSSIAN	RUS
SLOVAK	SLV
SLOVENIAN	SLO
SPANISH CASTILIAN	SPNC
SPANISH LATIN	SPNL
SWEDISH	SWD
TAMIL	TAM
TELUGU	TEL
THAI	THA
TURKISH	TRK
URDU	URD
VIETNAMESE	VTN
YUGOSLAVIAN	YUG
ZULU	ZUL

**Andrea Rossi** · 04-17-2023, 07:35 AM

Thanks for the language list, Michael!

**Michael Coate** · 04-17-2023, 11:18 AM

I can’t help with serial numbers, but here are some DTS-70mm titles I don’t see on your list.

Dinosaur (2000)
Patton (1970 [2001])
Hello, Dolly! (1969 [2002])
The Sound of Music (1965 [2003])
It’s a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World (1963 [2003])
Those Magnificent Men in their Flying Machines (1965 [2004])
The Greatest Story Ever Told (1965 [2004])
The Agony and the Ecstasy (1965 [2005])
Doctor Dolittle (1967 [2005])
South Pacific (1958 [2006])
Cleopatra (1963 [2006])
West Side Story (1961 [2008])
Khartoum (1966 [2008])
Star! (1968 [2008])
Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them (2016)
Dunkirk (2017)
Justice League (2017)
Kong: Skull Island (2017)
Murder on the Orient Express (2017)
Phantom Thread (2017)
Wonder Woman (2017)
Ready Player One (2018)
Roma (2018)
Joker (2019)
Once Upon a Time in…Hollywood (2019)
Tenet (2020)
Licorice Pizza (2021)
Death on the Nile (2022)

**Andrea Rossi** · 04-17-2023, 02:23 PM

Michael C.,
as you can read the list included here are about DTS 70mm / DTS 70mm Special Venue with serial NOT included into 14xxx 20xxx; those ones can be found here: http://www.film-tech.com/vbb/forum/d...elp-is-welcome

But two titles were missing anyway - thanks for them!

Dinosaur: it is 35mm [serial 2077] in my list; does it mean it is listed wrongfully and it does exist solely as 70mm, or there are both? In case, do you know 70m serial?
Greatest Story Ever Told: do you know if it's 5.1 or 6ch or 8ch? Serial?

Now I need confirmation on which titles in the list I've posted in this thread, that were released as 70mm (NOT Special Venue) without a 35mm OR if released as both 35mm and 70mm, that have different serial.
It is for a nice project I'm working on that will make happy many here (at least is what I strongly hope!)

**Michael Coate** · 04-17-2023, 02:40 PM

Mulan (1998) was not DTS-70mm. The 70mm presentation during its Hollywood Bowl premiere was an interlock with the printmaster.

**Andrea Rossi** · 04-17-2023, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by Michael Coate View Post

Mulan (1998) was not DTS-70mm. The 70mm presentation during its Hollywood Bowl premiere was an interlock with the printmaster.

Thanks! Removed from my list, and added your quoted message in the other thread.

**Andrea Rossi** · 04-17-2023, 06:48 PM

It seems that

serial 00001 - 00999 = trailer

(not movie trailers, but THX, DTS etc.) as found in R14.TXT files; still, never seen a file containing a single trailer with one of these serials.

Few examples:

Code:

00015 THX Broadway
00056 THX Grand
00071 THX Tex
00257 THX Tex 2 Moo
00735 DTS Sonic Landscape

There are of course trailers with serial higher than 999, but so far I've not seen movies with serial lower than 999 (actually 1003)

**Michael Zarits** · 04-18-2023, 02:57 AM

There are also movie trailer serials with 3 and even 2 digits. At the beginning they just startet regular features at 1000 where the first final release was 1003 and trailers startet from S/N 1-R14 as the orders came in with 2 exceptions:

The DTS Flying Disc trailer which was originally assigned as S/N 1045-R14 and later became the standard serial for the R14 trailer file.
The first version of the THX Grand trailer which was assigned as Reel 15 with the S/N 1004 and later became S/N 56-R14 when the R14 trailer reel format was introduced.

**Andrea Rossi** · 04-18-2023, 09:24 AM

Thanks for the info, Michael Z.!

Now random questions:

about DTS Stereo and DTS 6-track (5.1): AFAIK they share the same serial; so whichever disc I have, being it 2ch or 5ch, it should play well, right? Don't know if trailers are the same, but nevertheless, in DTS Stereo they must be 2ch as well, I guess.

about the test disc ES1: it has "Backdraft" and "Far and Away" surround only channels; but it seems neither these titles were released in DTS, isn't true?

**Paul Finn** · 04-20-2023, 10:05 AM

Serial Number 00001 February 1,1999 SMPTE RP200 The Buzz and Bill Show 6-Track (5.1 - all early discs were labeled 6-track) Demonstration Disc D-3

Very dynamic extreme sound levels for demonstration. May damage speakers. View with caution.

Paul Finn

Announcement

DTS and serial numbers

DTS and serial numbers

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