VistaVision Returns!

[Steve Guttag]

The Perspecta titles I heard definitely had more high-end than a typical optical track. Perhaps they boosted the high-end on the recording side or the decoders did that on the decode side...taking advantage of the control tones to turn off the channel (and essentially the noise), when the channel wasn't in use.

I would agree that Perspecta never had the depth or fidelity of 4-track. I was just impressed with what they could do with such constraints as it had.

I did not hear Popeye or Dragonslayer in Parasound or whatever they were calling it in the day but knew of it and I have heard the 4-channel mixes of Popeye, for sure. I believe the 4-channel mixes were what was used for the home video releases of those titles on Laserdisc, back in the day.

[Frank Angel]

I really don't know how it would be possible for Perspecta to create artificial stereo that had depth because it was essentially an automated pan pot, although unlike pan pots, it could send to left and right at the same time.

I agree, Marty. The late Bruce Sanders had a Fairchild Perspecta Sound Integrator unit and we were experimenting with it in his basement theatre with a print of NBNW; while the steering was done very unobtrusively and smoothly, with music never resembled the spatial depth that can only be achieved with true binaural sound consisting of two different perspectives of the music. Remember, stereo sound excites more than just hearing; it gives the has essential information that excites the brain in a way it can create a FEELING of space and depth; it is very much an added sensation above and beyond the sound itself. That simply can't happen if that essential difference information is not recorded via two channels during the recording. Try to fabricate that spatial information artificially simply wont work because information that the brain needs is missing. It's like the con artists during the dawn of color TV broadcasts who hawked acetate overlays that gullible B&W tv owners would buy to put over their B&W tv screens. The overlays had blue at the top, yellow in the middle and green at the bottom. Yah, there was color all right, but hardly a real color image. And yah, with Perspecta sound there were three stage speaker all right, but hardly able to create the feeling of depth and space of real stereo sound.

How did I get to this age and not know know about Vitasonic 4Trk Optical? I thought I was pretty knowledgeable about film audio formats. Then again, I certainly know that multiple optical identical tracks of mono sound were used on many soundtracks to minimize azimuth errors -- the more "lines" of track you have, the less error if the scanning slit is not 100% off the absolute 90°. I remember running a gorgious16mm IBTech print of a series produced by Bell Labs (The Human Body an NBC series) "Hemo the Magnificent." They originally aired on NBC and I ran them when I was in college and again 10 years later. Thing is, even back then, I was struck by the fact at in the that 16mm soundtrack area, there were SIX (that's right, I counted them) six soundtracks. I remember pondering, if they were able to fit that many soundtracks in the 16mm soundtrack geography, they certainly could easily fit at least 4 maybe 5 in the 35mm soundtrack space -- and they would be DISCRETE tracks. Given the very impressive noise reduction possible with DBX (I was always blown away with how impeccably clean/silent DBX's noise floor sounded -- more so than Dolby A), on a 35mm print, they probably could have gotten 3 screen channels and dual surrounds without breaking a sweat. It just seemed to me that Dolby's approach of sticking with the two tracks and then jumping thru all that matrixing slight-of-ear business to get that mono surround, maybe they should have seen what was possible fitting in a few more discrete tracks.

Side note: in the early days before Dolby, and just because i loved to tinker, I was unhappy with the used Altec tube preamps we had for the solar cell and so I used two Shure off the shelf mic mixers instead. The film I ran after I made the change was YELLOW SUBMARNE -- let me tell you, play a modern film without that Academy filter and you could almost believe it was a mag print -- the extended high end was like a blanket was lifted off the speakers. I had musicians come it and listen to see if perhaps my enthusiasm for what I was hearing was coloring my objectivity, but not at all, everyone to a person insisted it sounded better. I listened for hours and could hear no unpleasant artifacts, and why would there be, it was just removing a filter that was needed to compensate for the noise on the soundtracks of 20 years earlier.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

The Perspecta titles I heard definitely had more high-end than a typical optical track. Perhaps they boosted the high-end on the recording side or the decoders did that on the decode side...taking advantage of the control tones to turn off the channel (and essentially the noise), when the channel wasn't in use.

I would agree that Perspecta never had the depth or fidelity of 4-track. I was just impressed with what they could do with such constraints as it had.

I did not hear Popeye or Dragonslayer in Parasound or whatever they were calling it in the day but knew of it and I have heard the 4-channel mixes of Popeye, for sure. I believe the 4-channel mixes were what was used for the home video releases of those titles on Laserdisc, back in the day.

Steve, The faster speed alone would allow for the extended high end merely due to the physics of optical recording. I've had a lot of 35mm 4 perf VV prints in my collection over the years, and the high end is perhaps just a touch better than normal 35mm mono, brighter as you said. But the control track frequencies on the Perspecta prints is very noticeable as a slightly varying rumble.

[Jim Cassedy]

I have a question for Mark G, who has had some practical experience with
VistaVision™️: Since the V-V projectors were basically Century projectors
laid on their sides and modified for 8perf pull-down (or, "pull-across") my
question is: How did they modify, (or manufacture) the intermittents
so that the oil didn't run out?

[Ed Gordon]

We can finally share the news we've been teasing for months - Charlotte is heading to the TCM Film Festival to give a talk on The History of VistaVision alongside Craig Barron! In this special mini-episode, we’re breaking down everything you need to know about this widescreen deep dive, the classic films she’ll be introducing, and how this whole crazy project came to life. From behind-the-scenes stories to the magic of VistaVision on the big screen, we’re giving you a sneak peek at what’s in store. See you at TCMFF (and yeah, this one’s totally our fault)! Head over to https://filmfestival.tcm.com/programs... for more info on the VistaVision film prints. Charlotte's Presentation "Bigger, Sharper, Better: The History of VistaVision" can be found here: https://filmfestival.tcm.com/schedule... Charlotte's TCM page can be found here: https://filmfestival.tcm.com/programs...

VistaVision invades the TCM Film Festival - and It's Our Fault!
Perf Damage Podcast

[Ryan Gallagher]

VistaVision invades the TCM Film Festival - and It's Our Fault!
Perf Damage Podcast

Nice podcast! Being Paramount restoration centric, it doesn't shock me that the YT algorithm served up this one next, which I hadn't seen (uses a lot of clips from the tech teaser I linked prior, plus full trailers of a bunch of paramount vista-vision offerings at the time).

[Gordon McLeod]

I have a question for Mark G, who has had some practical experience with
VistaVision™️: Since the V-V projectors were basically Century projectors
laid on their sides and modified for 8perf pull-down (or, "pull-across") my
question is: How did they modify, (or manufacture) the intermittents
so that the oil didn't run out?

On the production machines the breather hole was sealed and there was a o ring added to some. The radio city machines had modified Brenkert movements in them

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

Eventually, all of them got larger movements. The real failure point was shown to me by Steve Krams one time when I was there picking up some other things. He has a bin of original Century VV sprockets that failed due to being pinned on to the 1/4" star shaft. The taper pins would eventually elongate the (three) holes they used to pin them in place. Sprockets would get ruined and so would the Star and cam and bushings.

[Gordon McLeod]

Warren Jenkins (who was the Technical Director of Radio City) that their prototype machines installed at the music hall had to have the intermitents replaced every show and they had a person full time in the booth doing nothing but repairing them

[Ryan Gallagher]

My one genuine period VistaVision collectible item arrived (via Ebay, purchased a couple days before this post and announcement). Destined for a frame I can open on occasion to reveal different pages, something both vintage film and graphics design buffs might enjoy. In French (and shipped from France), but the red graphic design makes me believe it to be quite period to the original development promotion materials. Too bad the original owner folded it in 3, but other than that pretty good shape.

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[Mark Gulbrandsen]

Warren Jenkins (who was the Technical Director of Radio City) that their prototype machines installed at the music hall had to have the intermitents replaced every show and they had a person full time in the booth doing nothing but repairing them

That doesn't surprise me at all... Steve had a medium size bin full or sprockets and pins.

[Frank Angel]

I wonder, how difficult would it have been to allow the VV projector 8/35 to run in its normal, vertical configuration and then with the addition of an optical attachment consisting of mirrors and lenses, turn the image 45° when projected. That projector could then conceivably also play standard 35mm films by swapping out the intermittent assembly. If that could have been done, it would have eliminated the biggest obstacle to wide-spread acceptance of VV projection. I mean, how many exhibitors were going to spring for a projector that could only run VV prints?

[Ryan Gallagher]

I wonder, how difficult would it have been to allow the VV projector 8/35 to run in its normal, vertical configuration and then with the addition of an optical attachment consisting of mirrors and lenses, turn the image 45° when projected. That projector could then conceivably also play standard 35mm films by swapping out the intermittent assembly. If that could have been done, it would have eliminated the biggest obstacle to wide-spread acceptance of VV projection. I mean, how many exhibitors were going to spring for a projector that could only run VV prints?

I would expect some trade offs with that approach perhaps, as it is even taller than 5p70, the shutter sizing/timing (and thus brightness too) would maybe be impacted. But seems a good use case for dual shutters or a brighter lamp to mitigate some of that. The more complex optics might have image clarity consequences too that make the horizontal running more appealing?

Also after optical rotation the shutters will visually operate on the other axis, perhaps we are too used to one type of flicker and the other would look complete unnatural?

[Ryan Gallagher]

17 years ago this chap on Youtube was playing with a dove prism lens and his 16mm projector to do exactly that. ;-)

Apparently they existed as projection lenses or accessories already at one time or another.

Dove Prisms (can also be mirrors)

Right Angle Roof Prisms (Amici Roof Prisms)

And another chap demo-ing image rotation using the equivalent mirror setup, a bit better of a demo than just staring at a screen. You can see the rotation effect is 2x the mirrors movement, so mirror contraption would be at a 45deg to achieve 90deg.

[Gordon McLeod]

I wonder, how difficult would it have been to allow the VV projector 8/35 to run in its normal, vertical configuration and then with the addition of an optical attachment consisting of mirrors and lenses, turn the image 45° when projected. That projector could then conceivably also play standard 35mm films by swapping out the intermittent assembly. If that could have been done, it would have eliminated the biggest obstacle to wide-spread acceptance of VV projection. I mean, how many exhibitors were going to spring for a projector that could only run VV prints?

Gaumont Kallee built exactly that for the screening rooms at Pinewood The PPT has the surviving one. But it can only be used for Lazy 8 as it runs from bottom to top. Also the prism required the machine to point 90 degrees from the screen