Are you gonna get an electric car anytime soon? (Or do you already have one?)

[Scott Jentsch]

For those concerned about safety of EVs, this might be interesting to you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zK-VTjTGuk

Running a Mustang Mach-E into a barrier at 40mph in an overlap impact. If you don't want to see everything and cut to the action, the impact portion of the video starts at 30:42.

A "minor" accident is very likely not going to cause a late-model EV to turn into a four-wheeled road flare. Is it possible? Of course, just like it's possible to be killed by your snowblower with less than a gallon of gas in it. Just ask Jay Leno what gasoline can do when it doesn't stay put...

We tend not to think about gasoline and how dangerous it really can be since it's so much a part of our lives. If you really thought about it, how safe do you really feel about the idea of flying down the road at 85 mph while sitting on 16 gallons of highly combustible gasoline among dozens or hundreds of others doing the same?

I did some quick googling, and found this from Autoweek magazine, How Much Should You Worry About EV Fires?:

Researchers from insurance deal site Auto Insurance EZ compiled sales and accident data from the Bureau of Transportation Statistics and the National Transportation Safety Board. The site found that hybrid vehicles had the most fires per 100,000 sales at 3474.5. There were 1529.9 fires per 100k for gas vehicles and just 25.1 fires per 100k sales for electric vehicles.

The hybrid stat above is surprising and concerning, but I guess when you have a vehicle that has both a gas powerplant and a battery system, you've got twice as many ways for things to go badly, and especially so when an electrical spark or other issue is inches away from gallons of gasoline.

I would not be concerned about driving an EV with my family, or with parking it in my garage and charging it unattended. I would, however, make sure that the vehicle performed well in crash tests and has a good track record, and my electrical equipment was installed by a competent electrician and the work inspected by the city. Just as I wouldn't install my own air conditioner, whole-house generator (high electrical loads), or a natural gas furnace, I would want to make sure the work was done properly and safely.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

In "Other Lithium Battery News",,,,

[Harold Hallikainen]

Many years ago (before lithium-based batteries were available and electric cars used lead-acid batteries), I read a discussion of increasing the range of electric vehicles. One method was to attach a trailer with a generator to charge the batteries on long trips. Another approach was a "pusher trailer" that had wheels powered by the internal combustion engine. A bit convoluted. The trailer would only be used on long trips.

[Frank Cox]

I suppose the counter-argument would be that hybrids are a way to get around the issues of range and refuelling time (and refuelling locations) that come with an electric-only vehicle.

I don't know enough about these things to have a valid opinion but it's my understanding that those are the main issues that are currently holding back mass adoption of electric vehicle technology.

[Leo Enticknap]

IMHO, hybrids offer the worst of both worlds: there is both an ICE and an electric powertrain to go wrong (and battery pack to wear out), and likely an insanely complicated transmission to handle switching between the two. You also have the heavier duty, more expensive tires needed to support the bigger weight of the vehicle. Like the African nations that have effectively leapfrogged over landline telecommunications and gone straight from nothing to cellular, I'm not interested in hybrids, and would prefer to hang on to my conventional gas-powered car until it wears out and EVs have gotten at least closer to the point of being a like-for-like replacement.

Another alarm bell in my mind is that the Prius requires premium grade gas (I don't know if this is true of other hybrids) thanks to the smaller, higher compression engine: a former co-worker who has one was constantly complaining about this.

[Frank Cox]

What do you guys think about hybrid vehicles?

I don't know much (meaning anything at all) about them but I just read this article.

https://auto.howstuffworks.com/ford-escape.htm

I see that the Ford Escape is offered in both a regular hybrid and a plug-in hybrid, too.

[Leo Enticknap]

That's a bummer. When the VW plant in Chattanooga is fully online, ID4s will become eligible for the rebate, too (as of the 2024 model year, the last I heard). Of all the EVs currently on the market, that one is closest to what I'd be interested in. My game plan is still to run the HR-V for as long as it remains reliable, though: every extra year I hang on, EVs are likely to come down in price and go up in range, reliability, and safety. Thanks to the local crime situation I do want to be able to put my car in the garage overnight, and I need to see the safety record of these battery packs improve before I'd feel comfortable doing that.

We're somewhat of a Honda loyalist family, primarily because there is a dealership only a few blocks from us that has always treated us fairly and reliably (for my wife's family, going back to the 1980s); but the last I knew, Honda does not plan to introduce an EV until an electric version of the CR-V for the 2025 model year. Of all the big automakers, they seem to be the last to enter the EV market.

[Martin Brooks]

I'll probably be buying the Hyundai Ioniq 6 sedan once it's available in 2023. I live in a co-op that has installed chargers in the garage (although they're still waiting for one part to make them operational), although I'll have to pay to use them whereas if I can find chargers from Electrify America, it's free for the first two years. I was looking at the Ioniq 5 this past year, but at first, the dealers were charging $thousands extra and the trim I wanted wasn't availabled, although now there's deals on the 2022's. The 5 is rated at 305 miles per full charge. The 6 is expected to be rated at about 350 because it's more aerodynamic. At a high speed charger, they both charge to 80% in 18 minutes in fair weather.

Unfortunately, the Hyundais aren't eligible for the Federal rebate because they aren't manufactured in the U.S. Hyundai is building a U.S. factory, but it won't be open until 2025 or so. As my current car is almost 20 years old, I don't want to wait anymore, even though I bet there will be tremendous improvements to EV's over the next five years.

[Leo Enticknap]

I would oppose a per mile tax, admittedly out of self interest: it would penalize those who, through no fault of their own, have no practical choice but to live a long distance from their workplace. Billionaires who live in Bel-Air and work in Hollywood would pay almost nothing, whereas the middle class who have to live out in the Inland Empire and rack up 30-40K miles a year commuting, because housing costs are too high closer to their workplaces, would bear the brunt of taxation for road maintenance.

Taxing gasoline is justified by politicians with the claim that the money is needed to mitigate the environmental damage that tailpipe emissions cause. That money isn't predicated or ringfenced for road maintenance: in the vast majority of states that impose a gas tax, the money goes straight into the state's general fund. In many states, California included, a tiny fraction of the money raised in gas taxes actually goes to road construction and maintenance. A chunk of it is currently being spent on the high speed railroad between Bakersfield and Fresno.

The honest response to the conversion from gas to electric vehicles is to fund all highway infrastructure construction and maintenance from general taxation (income, sales, capital gains, etc.), and stop pretending that gas taxes were in any way ringfenced for that purpose. Everyone needs that highway infrastructure to support their lives, including those who don't own a car and have never learned to drive. The food they buy at the supermarket gets there in a big rig, etc. etc. If the politicians truly believe that EVs are a solution to the pollution problem, then there is no justification for a specific "sin tax" on their use.

[Harold Hallikainen]

Are there road taxes on natural gas used as a motor vehicle fuel? As there is a transition away from gasoline and diesel for vehicle fuel, there will have to be some other way to pay for road maintenance. I'm thinking a fee for mileage would be reasonable. This could be by users putting their odometer reading on their tax return. Here in AZ, we have periodic emissions checks, so the mileage can be verified at that time.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

Until batteries are made safe, I think the best thing is to stick with Natural Gas. People can have fill connections installed at home and then they don't have to go to some remote fuel place every week. The one really good thing about running on Natural Gas is that the oil in the engine stays very, very clean. I have yet to hear of a Natural Gas explosion in a vehicle, although I'm sure it has happened some where. Gasoline tanks have exploded too, But N.G. is a lot cheaper than gasoline. It's as low as $1.68 a gallon in Salt Lake City right now..

[Leo Enticknap]

Like the radical new super battery, synthetic liquid fuel and algal biofuel is something one reads an exciting article about every now and again, but it's the usual story - scaling it up from a lab experiment to volume production seems to be the gotcha.

[Mike Blakesley]

I wonder if EVs won't cause the "lease" model to come to the fore, for used cars as well as new. They'd have to build the cost of battery replacement into the lease somehow. Nothing is free, that's for sure.

[Lyle Romer]

Cost, range, and safety, are the three areas in which EVs are still nowhere close to competitive with ICE-Vs when comparing like with like.

My gas powered F-150 with 36 gallon tank has a range well in excess of 550 miles on the highway, can be fueled from almost empty to full in 5 minutes or so and won't spontaneously combust. The most range available on the F-150 lighting is 320 miles (and it won't get anywhere near that on the highway without regenerative breaking going on). The lower range version takes 41 minutes on a "fast" charger to charge from 15% to 80% which will be even longer on the 320 mile range version. It will take close to an hour to charge 200 miles worth of best case range.

I realize that over time you will save significant cost in fuel using electricity vs. gasoline but you have well over $10,000 in additional up front cost. Plus, if you keep it long enough the battery will eventually need replacement and will cost more than some small gasoline powered cars. You'll be investing this money into a vehicle that is 10-15 years old.

Honestly, a step change in battery cost per kWh needs to happen before EVs are really competitive with ICEs. Improvement in energy density would help as well.

If the goal is to eliminate CO2, we'd probably be better off investing in synthetic fuel production using "green" energy to produce it and burning it in the existing, cost effective and well developed ICE engines.

[Leo Enticknap]

Cost, range, and safety, are the three areas in which EVs are still nowhere close to competitive with ICE-Vs when comparing like with like.