Are you gonna get an electric car anytime soon? (Or do you already have one?)

[Lyle Romer]

Yes, I found that Prius info on line. Prius does have a smallish battery pack. There is a place in Salt Lake City I visited once that rebuilds them and I was surprised.. Also interesting they never seem to catch on fire.

Battery pack size and location probably makes them less susceptible to becoming an inferno.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

There's a version of the Prius that is a plug in hybrid. BMW makes one, I think Mercedes and a few others. The Prius Prime has 44 miles of electric range.

Yes, I found that Prius info on line. Prius does have a smallish battery pack. There is a place in Salt Lake City I visited once that rebuilds them and I was surprised.. Also interesting they never seem to catch on fire.

[Lyle Romer]

I've never heard of a plug in Hybrid Lyle... Who makes those??

There's a version of the Prius that is a plug in hybrid. BMW makes one, I think Mercedes and a few others. The Prius Prime has 44 miles of electric range.

[Ryan Gallagher]

I'm probably more likely to splurge on an E-Bike long before I consider an EV. But as it is I have 3 bicycles in my studio apartment already. ;-)

[Marcel Birgelen]

"Markets WrapBiden’s New Chopper Is Demoted After Scorching White House LawnTesla S"

WrapBiden sounds like the summer special at McDonald's and a LawnTesla S like the new robot lawnmower by Tesla.
They both somehow got involved in a chopper incident that scorched the White House.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

In all fairness to people that do own EV's I read this article this morning... One thing the article bypasses is the fact that many Lithium batteries used at home and elsewhere simply get tossed in the trash.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

I did find info on the one Toyota produces... It becomes more of an EV at that point, so... Still not very interested in a hybrid or EV either way...

[Leo Enticknap]

My understanding is that most if not all of the big multinational automakers offer them now. As Lyle notes, the selling point of a PHEV is that a battery that gives you, say, 50 miles of range is nothing like as pricey, heavy, or a fire risk as one that gives you 250 miles, and with regular charging, the ICE would only need to be used a few times a year on long trips for many people. That having been said, I get the impression that hybrids that can go as far as that on electricity alone are unusual. I had a Prius as a rental car just before the pandemic, and I seem to remember that it would only do 5-6 miles of surface street driving at the absolute most before the engine started up.

The potential drawback is complexity: you have both an ICE and an electric drivetrain that can potentially go wrong.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

I agree that hybrids are the best compromise right now. They get significantly better fuel economy than the equivalent gas only vehicle but don't have the range issues of an EV and don't need nearly the amount of expensive material for the battery because it is so much smaller.

Probably a plug-in hybrid that has 40-50 miles of battery only range is truly the best of both worlds. A normal commuter who has access to charging at work and home can be fully electric most of the time but not have to think twice about hopping in for a long trip.

I've never heard of a plug in Hybrid Lyle... Who makes those??

[Lyle Romer]

Leo, It's California's goofy laws that are causing the mass exodus of people moving to other States. Just like like Illinois, once enough big Corps leave, they will have to change their tune about many of the laws. I see lots of CA license plates here in Tennessee. They move here because they find out Tennessee has no State Income Tax. But little do they know that the equivelent State Income Tax they would be paying is eventually collected over the year in many other ways. Property taxes here actually are low compared to lots of places. But it's still fun to listen to all the neighbors complain about how 'high" they think it is.
As for cars... Hybrids are still the least costly and most reliable route to go. A person gets the best of both worlds in a hybrid.

I agree that hybrids are the best compromise right now. They get significantly better fuel economy than the equivalent gas only vehicle but don't have the range issues of an EV and don't need nearly the amount of expensive material for the battery because it is so much smaller.

Probably a plug-in hybrid that has 40-50 miles of battery only range is truly the best of both worlds. A normal commuter who has access to charging at work and home can be fully electric most of the time but not have to think twice about hopping in for a long trip.

[Steve Guttag]

Leo...I did allow for having a weight based multiplier on the per-mile. While you consider it a penalty for those force to live further away from work, I counter with...we need to build and maintain more road for you (needing more money). It is no different than an ICE car needing more gas (more gas tax)...it puts the same burden on that person, regardless of what they drive. You could, I suppose, put separate meters on EV charging devices so they are taxed different (similar to how grey water or farming fuel works). I don't look at the tax as penalizing anyone. It is the reality that roadways, and other infrastructure, cost money to make and maintain. Those that use them the most and, in particular, put the most wear and tear on them should pay the most. That said, I'm totally against tolls, except to expedite getting a road built. I think if a roadway gets that sort of use, the gas/mileage tax should incorporate the upkeep of roads, including bridges and tunnels.

[Leo Enticknap]

Because the battery packs make the weight of an EV around three times that of its ICE-powered equivalent, so tires wear that much quicker.

[Mike Blakesley]

and the $1K set of tires every 20K miles or so, of the EV

Why do you need new tires every 20k miles or so? I've never heard that before.

[Leo Enticknap]

On road taxation per mile, I dispute that it's inherently fairer than a flat registration fee. People who tend to drive high mileages (excluding for work and reimbursed, which accounts for about three quarters of the 30-40K miles I drive a year) usually fall into one of two categories: people living in rural areas, where origin points and destinations are further apart, and people who live in exurbs because the cost of housing closer to their workplaces, and/or crime and other quality of life issues, have forced them further away. They are already taking the hit of spending more hours behind the wheel: is it fair to tax them more for transportation energy as well? If you believe that it is on the basis that people should pay in proportion to the wear and tear they place on public infrastructure, then IMHO the per mile charge should also vary according to the weight of the vehicle. A Hummer puts a lot more wear on the pavement than a Honda Fit. That would also give high mileage drivers with no easy way of changing their lifestyle to reduce their mileage the option of reducing it by choosing to drive a smaller, lighter car.

The Utah approach - giving the option of per mile or a flat fee but with the per mile charge capped at the flat fee - strikes me as a reasonable compromise with that aim in mind.

The realities are, the more the government wants us reliant on electricity for things (not just EVs but heat, AC, cooking...you name it)...the more they should make it conducive to make electricity cheaper and more plentiful. This would include home generation of electricity, be it solar and/or wind, including back selling generated power.

Agreed, and furthermore, microgeneration drives down the need for electricity transmission (grid) infrastructure, not to mention power loss in transmission (AFAIK, superconducting grid infrastructure is still science fiction). It makes sense on so many levels to consume electricity as close as possible to where it is produced. Whole house battery technology seems to be developing in a positive direction, assuming that the fire risk can be managed down successfully: it potentially does away with single points of failure. If one whole house battery system fails, one house goes dark. If a substation fails, two or three developments go out.

But my problem with all of this is that the government (at least, here in California) seems to be determined to make achieving any of this as difficult and as expensive as possible. I am not hostile to new technologies (quite the opposite - I make my living selling, installing, and maintaining them), except when they cost a lot more, impose more restrictions, and are possibly more dangerous than tried and tested ones.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

Since the taxes based on mileage reflect the actual road use, that is a fairer system. An efficient vehicle still consumes roadway based on the miles it drives. I could see having a variable in the tax rate for weight of vehicle since heavier vehicles consume more road.

Utah did it fairly, but it sure made the EV owners squak.

"Owners of electric and hybrid vehicles have two options: pay the additional alternative fuel flat fee during annual vehicle registration or enroll in the Road Usage Charge program and be charged 1.06 cents per mile up to the additional flat fee amount."

I agree that EV trucks, especially Semi's need to he taxed by weight. Most States have been doing that on commercial vehicles for decades. Semi's also do the most damage to our roads.