I finally converted over to Win 10 Pro.... Still not impressed....

[Van Dalton]

There *is* WINE if you need it but it's kind of a kludge at best. It works alright for me, for the few things that I need it for (mainly audio processing and ISO9660 manipulation tools), but the software I run in it isn't sophisticated by today's standards, by any means.

I still keep a Pentium IV with 98 around mainly to run Simcopter because no matter how much I have cussed it out, WINE just ain't having it, but it's the only Winblows machine I have anymore. It also excels as a DVD video file ripper/player.

[Leo Enticknap]

I've found that if a Windows app needs to use bespoke Windows hardware drivers, that's when WINE can't help you. The Barco and NEC Communicator apps both work reliably in WINE (as long as they're communicating through IP, not RS232), meaning that potentially, a repurposed old PC with a Debian/Linux-based OS would work as a cinema remote access PC (there is a native version of Teamviewer available). The big advantage to doing that would be that it could read DCP drives natively, if needs be, thereby enabling you to FTP them into a server if the server itself refuses to read them. I once tried Office 2007 within WINE, but when I tried to open a Powerpoint with an embedded video, it crashed. And the Adobe Creative Suite apps won't even install.

[Bruce Cloutier]

So recently Microsoft put out a security update (ending in 802 if I remember) that for some reason made Dymo printers print blank labels. This shutdown our receiving and production area. Apparently it fell on Dymo to fix this. Their site was overloaded and their initial recommendations did not resolve the issue. Finally they recommended that you uninstall the offending security update. That temporarily resolved the issue but Windows would eventually reapply the update. We tried to disable the Windows Update service hoping that there would be a more appropriate fix soon. The problem returned and even though Windows update had been disabled it was running. Turns out that there is a Windows Update Medic service that restarts Windows Update if you stop it. And... You cannot stop or edit the "medic" service. Access is denied!

Thankfully after a week of farting with this issue on multiple machines, Dymo came out with an update that restored printing even in the face of the Microsoft Update.

IMHO these are our computers and it we want to stop a service we should have every right! As it is we run WIndows based production machines (big mistake) disconnected from the network (Go watch Battlestar Galactica again). Whenever possible we are installing Linux machines (Ubuntu) and have recently converted ALL of our servers to full Linux boots without any software purchase.

Now I need to work on some graphics and CorelDraw will not install on Windows 7 or 8. Corel says to update the OS. If I update the OS on this machine whole bunches of other things will break not the least of which would be how I can work remotely on this multi-screen PC. All of this seems broken to me (again IMHO). Having been part the beginning of all of this in the late 1960s and on, I feel that all of what we started is now seriously circling the drain.

I could rant on... and not just about Microsoft. But, my recommendation is that if you can get the job done on Linux that is the way to go. Microsoft, the corporation, needs run cleanup on itself, defrag and then be rebooted.

[Steve Guttag]

See I've been quite disappointed with Linux as an alternative to Windows/Mac (not purpose built systems but Windows alternatives). One has to be "in the club" to a degree to know the ins and outs of how to load/install things. Sort of like how real IT pros don't use the WebGUI on a network switch, they use the CLI...real Linux guys use the Terminal and know all of the commands/switches for what they want. I just want the machine to work and not join the club. The realities are, many applications I use REQUIRE Windows. As such, I'm going to use a Windows computer for those applications. At home, I use an IMAC and I do emulate Windows (and even Linux...I do have a VM with Ubuntu on it). With Linux I always feel I'm working with the store brand applications and things can conflict with no real support for it. It is more of the wild-west. I've built Linux machines with minimal applications and they crash easily as often (and really more so) than the Windows machines (or Mac...my Macs have been the most stable with the least amount of turnover on the hardware).

So, if you like Linux as a personal computer platform...more power to ya. I'm no fan of Windows but there are going to be applications that will require it (most every cinema specific program for projection or sound equipment either only has a Windows application or Windows is the dominate version of it). Once most everything goes Web-GUI then it won't matter as much as it is just a Web Browser but you can take Firefox and shove that one too. I used it for about 2-years and it was just horrible...it eventually slowed to a crawl on every computer I had it on...I've jettisoned it and never looked back. Libre Office seems like a decent enough MS-Office competitor (and the price is right). Though, again, there are some companies that will use Excel, with Macros and things that ONLY run on MS-Excel and only late-model versions at that. So, I do have genuine MS-Office on a few machines to ensure I'm covered there (Plus, I've been using MS-WORD since the late-'80s).

I 100% agree that MS should not be able to compel someone to update their OS. The only caveat would be that MS shouldn't be held liable for any computer that is not updated with security patches for any security breach. I've set up computers that "never change" and are in no security risk. They don't need updating and will be more stable and faster without the updates.

[Leo Enticknap]

Steve and Bruce both offer reasons why I like to have both Windows and a Linux-based OS immediately available on the same computer (native booting, not one in a VM under the other). Even on a very basic level, if one goes completely BSOD, I can still boot into the other and have access to stuff on the data partition.

[Bruce Cloutier]

As with anything there is a learning curve and it all depends on what you are used to. If you like to buy software and then buy it again and then buy it again, then stick with it. The Linux systems GUI install/uninstall interface is improving and the Terminal CLI commands to install something, once you are comfortable with it, are exceptionally simple. There has been a lot of resistance to change here, but it didn't take long before I heard that it isn't as bad as they thought.

But add to this Microsoft pulling support from perfectly good machines running an exceptional operating system in Windows 7 followed by software vendors pulling their support and preventing their products from being installed on the older systems... it is worth making the move. On top of that Microsoft forcing their code on you and preventing you from controlling your own computer...

But Wine is not a perfect option for running Windows programs under Linux. You need Mono to add dotNET capability. It works but like everything else there are bugs and the companies are not supporting it. Software supplied with a Linux installation though is great.

Oddly, given the opinions that I've expressed here, We don't supply a perfect Linux alternative for the Support Tool. Not yet. There are versions of it under test. It hasn't taken on the priority that it probably should. I would have to say mostly because the users haven't been demanding it.

[Steve Guttag]

Bruce, for the person that is using a computer as a tool to get work done, why should they EVER need to be on a CLI/Terminal? Take the current Macintosh method...drop the program into the Application folder...done. Why is the typical Linux distro so clunky like that. Hey, if you get your jollies and feel more in control by using a CLI and only turning on specific switches for what you want...that's great. I'd never take that away but if I just want to use the program, I just want to use the program. The OS should facilitate that not make me "join the club." So, you can sudo apt-get yourself to your heat's content.

I'm no stranger to a learning curve and can adapt to most anything but if one is trying to be productive, I find that Linux is more for the hobbiest that wants to be "involved" with their OS. Mac and Windows are for people that are more interested in the programs that run on the OS than the OS itself and view the OS as the impediment to that. Typically, I find that the time from purchase to running is fastest on the Mac. Emulating other OSes seem to work better when the Mac is the primary OS and I do like the ability to smoothly work across platforms when I use Parallels (with files, cut/pastes...you name it...a Windows app is just another window on my Mac).

Then again, I've emulated a PC on my Macs throughout the years since the late '80s (SoftPC was the granddaddy program for emulating PC-XT and PC-AT machines on old-school Macs). There was a time I also had both real machines side-by-side as I was developing a graphics card for the PC machine...ah the college days.

So far, I've yet to see a compelling argument for a Linux based personal computer nor have I seen anyone else's that made me wish I had something like that. Oh and I've had Ubuntu reject a computer I was going to load it on because that version of Ubuntu didn't support the internal graphics "card" (built into the motherboard).

[Bruce Cloutier]

Steve, you are right it all amounts to the amount of "control" that you want to have and knowledge of what is going on and what happened. In the vast majority of situations I agree I would just like to click a button. The interest on my part in Linux is the greatly reduced periodic and persistent attack on my wallet. Then there is the benefit of a large community of developers, of like mind as I, none of which are driven by profit or ruled by shareholders. But it is not perfect and it does not replace everything. There is a great deal of quality software developed and sold by companies that support their work and care about their users that run on Mac, Windows and others. It is just unfortunate that the underlying operating system keeps changing and presenting a moving target. I have perfectly good desktop workstations that could continue to serve us for years but now for some reason are no longer supported and no longer suitable for updates and new software installation. Why? When we purchased these computers the concept was that they would work for us unless there was a hardware failure and even then we felt capable of repairing them. And... we didn't buy them to enhance our daily social media activity or to see more ads.

But I am not telling you to change what you are doing. I am suggesting that someone ought to slap Microsoft upside the head though, as they are driving at least some of us away. I am just voting with my wallet so to speak. I don't really care about their revenue stream. I just don't need MS continually showing up on our daily list of issues.

[Frank Cox]

Linux is kind of a Unix derivative and follows the same philosophy as Unix. It's a secure multi-user operating system where the end user isn't really intended to be doing things like installing software and running updates. The idea is that your system administrator does all of those things for you and end users are supposed to be using the machine (running the installed applications). You can set up a Linux computer and drop it on someone's desk and come back five years later and it will look exactly like it did when you first brought it in.

When you suddenly have a Linux machine on your desk at home and have to be your own system administrator, that's where the learning curve comes in.

I've been running Linux as the primary/only operating system on my computers since 1998. My desktop looks a bit different now than it did then (though not as much as you might think), but the basic principles have not changed.

Bruce, your perfectly good desktop workstations could likely be set up with Linux and you'll get a lot more life out of them yet. And I think you're a lot safer doing things like online banking and whatnot on your Linux machine where you know what's running and have some control over it; with Windows (or an app on your cell phone) you never know what's really happening under the hood. I've set up a few computers for people specifically for online banking for just exactly that reason.

[Steve Guttag]

I think Microsoft is a victim of their own success as much as a victim of their bad code/methods. If they were not so universal, they wouldn't be hacked so much (lots of payoff to be had by hacking Microsoft) and thus the constant changing of things. Microsoft used to be big on backwards compatibility...they seem to have gotten over that...particularly as bit size as grown. Apple has never been afraid to do away with old technology and draw a line where by either you are moving forward, or you are not.

For my laptops, they have all been Windows machines and the reason for changing them is always operating system based...when things no longer load or operate in a timely manner, it is time to move on. I keep the older ones for talking with older things. In fact, I just recently rescued a CAT862 mediablock that didn't want to talk to my Win 7 machine via USB but it talked just fine to my XP machine! That mediablock lives and runs to this day. I have a trusty old Toshiba T4600 486 based laptop with Win95 on it if I need to go back that far for something. Its BIOS batteries are done so it doesn't know what day it is but it still boots up without fail. Runs DOS just fine too. I have a Win98 laptop kicking around here too.

My turnover rate on Mac machines is incredibly low. There was the big "pre-Intel" dividing line and there will be a big "post-Intel" dividing line coming up. But, for the most part, I get more than a decade on a desktop. I think I've had four Macs since 1987 (Mac SE - SE/30, iMac G3, iMac Intel and my current iMac Retina and the last two are still in use. The G3 was the short lived one, for me...the SE/30 is still with me but needs work but boy it ran from 1987 until about 2003 about daily. Running a 1987 machine presents challenges though...things like...no Ethernet port (were supposed to use a modem for that internet stuff, or the ever popular "Appletalk"), no USB port, just 3.5" floppy drives or an external "SCSI" Drive...which posses problems transferring to something current. There does come a point were the hardware really IS the limiting factor. I'd probably still rather write something in Word 5.1 on that old Mac, with the small screen (though I had it able to do dual screen and color) than on a modern computer. Word 5.1 was one of better versions for features versus overhead.

In any event, I don't see Linux as bringing anything to the table, for me. Clearly, I work with Linux machines daily in Digital Cinema but those are also purpose built.

[Bobby Henderson]

The only version of Linux I'm using is the Android OS in my phone. That is it. In graphics work there is really only two OS choices: Mac or PC. Depending on your line of work that will drive the OS choice big time. I work in the sign industry and it has been deeply rooted in MS-DOS and then Windows since the late 1980's due to the CAD/CAM/CAE connection. Early on there was a UNIX-based segment but that quickly died off as a result of where critical applications chose to land in terms of operating system platform. In the sign industry much of that went from MS-DOS to Windows. And the Windows platform still reigns supreme over that industry, arguably even more than ever. In terms of sign making applications (large format printing RIPs, routing table programs, LED jumbotron controllers, vinyl cutting applications, etc) the vast majority only run on Windows. And you have to run Win 10 to be up to date.

In terms of general purpose graphics work the Mac and Windows platforms rank high above Linux. There are some applications that do run native on distros of Linux, but not very many. In terms of mainstream software there is no Linux-native version of Adobe Creative Cloud.

I have had 10 crash several times while doing Photo work on it.

What image editing application are you using and what is the configuration, and what kind of images are you throwing at it? We have Photoshop CC running on some somewhat old PCs with Win 10 Pro and they're doing alright. And we're not using rinky dink web page size stuff. Most of it is geared to large format printing on a pair of 54" HP Latex printers and a big flatbed printer.

Update is actually faster than Win 7 is, but there are still updates? Why?

Um, criminal "black hat" hacker pieces of shit-ridden filth? As long as any digital device is connected to anything resembling an Internet there will ALWAYS be a need for updates. Basically PEOPLE ARE SHIT. We're dishonest, low and maybe deserve extinction far more than the dinosaurs ever did.

The best thing is I only paid $35 for my copy with COA, and frankly, it is not worth more than that $35.

Why did you have to pay anything at all. Not too long ago I replaced the toasted magnetic hard drive in an old notebook with a new SATA-based SSD and loaded Win 10 Pro on it. The laptop originally had Win 7 Ultimate loaded. I was able to use the Win 7 Ultimate key to activate the Win 10 Pro installation for free.

One thing I don't like about the automatic push-updates from Microsoft for Win 10 is that they'll uninstall drivers for various things. In the same old notebook I mentioned it had a dedicated nVidia graphics board and the Win 10 update refused to let it run. So that forced the old notebook to run off the very anemic Intel integrated fake graphics driver chipset. I think we can split the blame on that one between Microsoft and nVidia. And really I think the balance goes more toward nVidia for intentionally "sun-setting" graphics boards and no longer issuing updates for them. So Microsoft comes along and does the coup de grace on that aging, security vulnerable video driver.

You'll be sorry..... The vast majority of my systems (8) are still Windows 8.1. Rock solid, clean updates.

If you use certain applications, such as (in my case) graphics applications from vendors like Adobe, Corel, other companies and third party suppliers of plug-ins and what not, they force you off old operating systems if you want to use the latest and greatest features in their applications.

Here's a good example: OTF Variable Fonts. Anyone who isn't into graphic design might not have ever heard of Variable Fonts. But the technology is kind of a big deal for me. It brings back to life the concept from the "dead" Postscript Multiple Master font format but elevates it with the latest bells and whistles of OpenType technology. Variable Fonts are not compatible with Windows 7 or 8. You have to run Win 10 for them to work because it requires DirectWrite technology in the OS. You ain't gettin' that in Win 7 or Win 8. Variable Fonts are growing in popularity in graphic design circles. You can have a single OTF VAR font file subset embedded in a PDF document yet have dozens of "instances" of that typeface activated in the text without growing the file size at all.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

See I've been quite disappointed with Linux as an alternative to Windows/Mac (not purpose built systems but Windows alternatives). One has to be "in the club" to a degree to know the ins and outs of how to load/install things. Sort of like how real IT pros don't use the WebGUI on a network switch, they use the CLI...real Linux guys use the Terminal and know all of the commands/switches for what they want. I just want the machine to work and not join the club. The realities are, many applications I use REQUIRE Windows. As such, I'm going to use a Windows computer for those applications. At home, I use an IMAC and I do emulate Windows (and even Linux...I do have a VM with Ubuntu on it). With Linux I always feel I'm working with the store brand applications and things can conflict with no real support for it. It is more of the wild-west. I've built Linux machines with minimal applications and they crash easily as often (and really more so) than the Windows machines (or Mac...my Macs have been the most stable with the least amount of turnover on the hardware).

So, if you like Linux as a personal computer platform...more power to ya. I'm no fan of Windows but there are going to be applications that will require it (most every cinema specific program for projection or sound equipment either only has a Windows application or Windows is the dominate version of it). Once most everything goes Web-GUI then it won't matter as much as it is just a Web Browser but you can take Firefox and shove that one too. I used it for about 2-years and it was just horrible...it eventually slowed to a crawl on every computer I had it on...I've jettisoned it and never looked back. Libre Office seems like a decent enough MS-Office competitor (and the price is right). Though, again, there are some companies that will use Excel, with Macros and things that ONLY run on MS-Excel and only late-model versions at that. So, I do have genuine MS-Office on a few machines to ensure I'm covered there (Plus, I've been using MS-WORD since the late-'80s).

I 100% agree that MS should not be able to compel someone to update their OS. The only caveat would be that MS shouldn't be held liable for any computer that is not updated with security patches for any security breach. I've set up computers that "never change" and are in no security risk. They don't need updating and will be more stable and faster without the updates.

My Experience with Mac machines and eye Phones is not quite the same and all I can say is that Apple definitely has obsolescence built into them.. My last eye Mac would now be about ~7 years old and neither the OS nor the apps on it would update,. It also would not load any of the newer apps with the exception of a just a few. I ended up taking it to Good Will. Yet my Old desktop, an HP Z400 that's 12 plus years old running W-7 Pro still works perfectly, loads just about anything you throw at it and W-7 also still receives updates. I agree that Win 10 has some driver quirks to it and that it seems to favor some brands. Perhaps MS has interest in those companies. However, that is way less of a factor than the eye Mac becoming a door stop in such a short period of time.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

The only version of Linux I'm using is the Android OS in my phone. That is it. In graphics work there is really only two OS choices: Mac or PC. Depending on your line of work that will drive the OS choice big time. I work in the sign industry and it has been deeply rooted in MS-DOS and then Windows since the late 1980's due to the CAD/CAM/CAE connection. Early on there was a UNIX-based segment but that quickly died off as a result of where critical applications chose to land in terms of operating system platform. In the sign industry much of that went from MS-DOS to Windows. And the Windows platform still reigns supreme over that industry, arguably even more than ever. In terms of sign making applications (large format printing RIPs, routing table programs, LED jumbotron controllers, vinyl cutting applications, etc) the vast majority only run on Windows. And you have to run Win 10 to be up to date.

In terms of general purpose graphics work the Mac and Windows platforms rank high above Linux. There are some applications that do run native on distros of Linux, but not very many. In terms of mainstream software there is no Linux-native version of Adobe Creative Cloud.



What image editing application are you using and what is the configuration, and what kind of images are you throwing at it? We have Photoshop CC running on some somewhat old PCs with Win 10 Pro and they're doing alright. And we're not using rinky dink web page size stuff. Most of it is geared to large format printing on a pair of 54" HP Latex printers and a big flatbed printer.



Um, criminal "black hat" hacker pieces of shit-ridden filth? As long as any digital device is connected to anything resembling an Internet there will ALWAYS be a need for updates. Basically PEOPLE ARE SHIT. We're dishonest, low and maybe deserve extinction far more than the dinosaurs ever did.



Why did you have to pay anything at all. Not too long ago I replaced the toasted magnetic hard drive in an old notebook with a new SATA-based SSD and loaded Win 10 Pro on it. The laptop originally had Win 7 Ultimate loaded. I was able to use the Win 7 Ultimate key to activate the Win 10 Pro installation for free.


One thing I don't like about the automatic push-updates from Microsoft for Win 10 is that they'll uninstall drivers for various things. In the same old notebook I mentioned it had a dedicated nVidia graphics board and the Win 10 update refused to let it run. So that forced the old notebook to run off the very anemic Intel integrated fake graphics driver chipset. I think we can split the blame on that one between Microsoft and nVidia. And really I think the balance goes more toward nVidia for intentionally "sun-setting" graphics boards and no longer issuing updates for them. So Microsoft comes along and does the coup de grace on that aging, security vulnerable video driver.



If you use certain applications, such as (in my case) graphics applications from vendors like Adobe, Corel, other companies and third party suppliers of plug-ins and what not, they force you off old operating systems if you want to use the latest and greatest features in their applications.

Here's a good example: OTF Variable Fonts. Anyone who isn't into graphic design might not have ever heard of Variable Fonts. But the technology is kind of a big deal for me. It brings back to life the concept from the "dead" Postscript Multiple Master font format but elevates it with the latest bells and whistles of OpenType technology. Variable Fonts are not compatible with Windows 7 or 8. You have to run Win 10 for them to work because it requires DirectWrite technology in the OS. You ain't gettin' that in Win 7 or Win 8. Variable Fonts are growing in popularity in graphic design circles. You can have a single OTF VAR font file subset embedded in a PDF document yet have dozens of "instances" of that typeface activated in the text without growing the file size at all.

I never thought of trying the W7 key to be honest, but I also never had 7 Ultimate installed, and my copy of it is for 32 bit systems, I always used 7 Pro and always 64 bits. The COA key strings between the two are also completely different, so I doubt they are going to work, in fact not all Win 7 Pro COA strings will work with all WIn 7 Pro copies.

As for image editing I use Photoshop, and occasionally Light Room... only because I own two pre-monthly charge versions that I don't have to pay on constantly. I also own my copy of Capture One. I use Capture more than the others because it's way more comprehensive than all the Adobe programs put together and I can capture directly from my digital backs to my laptop if I want to.

You can turn off the automatic push updates in Win 10 Pro, or have it set to allow you to pick a time, or to run the updates manually. Buying the latest version also only left three quick updates to be done after the full install. As far as my Nvida graphics card goes, it's MS that actually had the driver already included on my Win 10 install disk. Nvida was the one that is no longer is supplying a Win 10 driver on their site. Go figure!!

[Steve Guttag]

The way MS treated the updates is that they kept you at the same level you were. It was the same update (really, it even worked on my emulated Win7 to Win10)...So if you were at Home Premium before, you are on Win 10 Home now...likewise for Pro. There was (and probably is) an ISO floating around of the "Free" update from 7 to 10 and yes you use your Win 7 key.

My current iMac, now that I'm sitting in front of it is officially called a: iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, Late 2015). It can run all current software and OS. I currently am still on OS 10.15 (Catalina) but am about to update it to current. I've been working on some projects and didn't want ANY changes during that. Also, I try to avoid X.0 versions of anything or 10.x.0 for iMacs...let the "other people" catch the bugs. I'll come in once most of those are sorted out.

I also never feel rushed into an OS update as most programs are slow to adopt anything new OS specific. However, eventually, things start being written with the current OS in mind.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

Then, based on my experience, you probably have at best two years of life left in that Mac.