Open Caption Law in DC

[Steve Guttag]

I wouldn't advise cinemas getting into the privacy filter/screen thing either, Harold. Whatever they supply won't fit or will be blamed for damaging the phone...etc. There should be standards developed for such filters so that the usual channels of accessories for consumer gear can make/supply them. Theatres could sell them, for those that forgot, I suppose.

What would be cool is if we could have invisible captions such that only those wanting them will see them. Sort of like you don't see IR LEDs but your camera does.

[Ryan Gallagher]

What would be cool is if we could have invisible captions such that only those wanting them will see them. Sort of like you don't see IR LEDs but your camera does.

Maybe once we all have neural implants that have outside connectivity. ;-)

But less jokingly... you can't quite get there, but there is interesting rather old-school tech used to create very very narrow field of view steerable screens. The big executives at annual industrial tradeshows often use "privacy teleprompters", an alternative to the visually distracting presidential style glass ones that require you to be stationary, or monitors that make you look away from your audience.

They are basically a big plastic Fresnel lens used as a rear projection screen in the back of the house. Then an operator "follows" the executive with the whole contraption sort of like a follow spot. Only those very close to where the speaker is standing can read the projected text, screen just kinda looks dimly illuminated for everyone else.

Another silly thought along those lines is baffled/louvered direct view screens. Sort of like how they hide auxiliary traffic lights from your view when you should be looking at the correct one. I can imagine a subtitles screen that is only visible from a certain region of seating using something like that.

But all academic, as all those concepts are cinema installed equipment, which we would rather avoid.

[Ryan Gallagher]

A personal devices approach is a bit of a double edged sword. Audiences aren't responsible enough to fully charge their devices before such extended use. And installing USB charging ports in seating itself is a cinema upgrade, and encourages device use by others. But I could see cinemas having a handful of ready to deploy battery banks to augment personal device batteries... much more manageable than maintaining and sanitizing head-worn gear, or installing more elaborate solutions.

[Harold Hallikainen]

What would be cool is if we could have invisible captions such that only those wanting them will see them. Sort of like you don't see IR LEDs but your camera does.

Consumers could buy their own night vision goggles, and we could project IR captions. Or, there this was this system by USL that theaters did not like because of the dim green bar below the screen: https://patentimages.storage.googlea...70216868A1.pdf

Harold

[Steve Guttag]

I think with laws requiring captions, in some form, will soften theatres to a green bar below the image. I don't know if they need full-on night vision goggles...since it would make the movie image also difficult. But, perhaps a means to, again, let a patron have prescription glasses with the feature...just like people get prescription sunglasses.

I'm not too worried about cell phone battery life...people have been able to go cross country on planes, without issue. The biggest drain is the backlight and that should be in the dimmest setting if using it for captions and the display isn't even on for just audio.

[Frank Cox]

Makes it tough to jump on someone who yanks out his phone in the middle of the movie and starts texting. Maybe he'd tell you he's checking the captions. (Yeah, right, but what could you do?)

[Harold Hallikainen]

I think with laws requiring captions, in some form, will soften theatres to a green bar below the image. I don't know if they need full-on night vision goggles...since it would make the movie image also difficult. But, perhaps a means to, again, let a patron have prescription glasses with the feature...just like people get prescription sunglasses.

The night vision goggles was in reference to someone suggesting the captions be projected onto the screen in IR. The green bar is in reference to the previously posted USL patent.

Harold

[James Gardiner]

I would like to remind everyone here about the target audience and their perspective. It is well known, those with disabilities like to be treated like everyone else.
If they can purchase a device that makes them equal to the next person in any respect. They are keen to obtain that technology.

If we can sync without any hardware in the cinema (Which I feel we can, or at a level the user will accept), these devices can be used anywhere.
The users known how to look after a device like they know how to look after a car and keep it on the road. Predownload assets etc.
This removes the need for external services or feeds to work. (no IR, WiFi, 5G. Can be in air plain mode. Only needs microphone and Blu-tooth to talk to headphones or AR-glasses)

The main reason this has not become the norm yet is that the producers have made it difficult to get the assets to implement the service. That's really all that is needed.

If they allow it, this will be the iPhone moment for accessibility in Cinema.

[Steve Guttag]

You mean the studios that feel the need to encrypt the captions in cinema servers (because you'd have the script, in a sense with the raw text) on the movies that they release, just about day-and-date with cinemas? Those studios?

So, if such a technology were used, what stops the app from just running the show while their at home. Yeah, you lose the picture but you are getting the script. And if you are including the hearing assistance/Descriptive Audio in that package, then you are releasing your $100M+ content into the wild (which will have to be available day-and-date with the movie's release). And, who is at fault if it doesn't hit someone's servers/phone in time? I can see concern with that. If the DCP itself carries the necessary data (audio/text...data), then the distribution is controlled. Plus, for non-DCP content, including Power Point rentals, one is going to need Hearing Assistance anyway. And, while mere text could possibly be done on the fly fast enough, it wouldn't satisfy Audio Description, which needs knowledge of the picture. On-the-fly would also be susceptible to noisy neighbors. At least, if the information is coming from the DCP itself, you are getting what the filmmaker intended you to see/hear/know.

[Harold Hallikainen]

There has been some discussion of security requirements for these applications. I don't know who would approve them. Does DCI want to specify security requirements for cell phone applications? With Interop distribution, captions were not encrypted on the delivery drive. As I recall, this resulted in the entire dialog for a movie (I think it was a Star Wars movie) making it to the web before opening day. With SMPTE distribution, the captions are encrypted during distribution. I THINK they are decrypted when the show is loaded (assuming it is within the allowed playout time) and stored in an http accessible directory. The server builds a Resource Presentation List that the captioning equipment uses to locate the files for each reel, the timeline offset, and other attributes. There is no encryption between external captioning servers ("auxiliary content servers") and the digital Cinema server. Some captioning systems encrypt the link from the ACS to the in-auditorium display devices, but not all systems do.

As far as downloading the content and playing it at home, I SUSPECT auditorium audio sync could be used to avoid that. The application would keep waiting for the fingerprint indicating where it is in the movie and would never find it.

[James Gardiner]

As Harold has indicated. There are ways to make it difficult. But ultimately, even with a DCP, there are many ways to strip off this data. But yes, without the audio fingerprint being present. Meaning, you have better access to perform any form of side attack anyway (i.e. its on a screen in front of you). The relative security you can obtain with these tools are as good if not better than historical. (If implemented right.) Encryption is not hard these days as its mostly open source based. The studios name the encryption standards to use. And the App creators just implement it. (Just like DCPs.) Plus it's not using HDCP or any other standardised protocol to send it to another device. That is the easy way to get to the unencrypted data. HDCP tends to be cracked very quickly every time they improve it. It's why once a film goes to streaming, typically relying on HDCP. Its pirated.) These personal devices will be completely self-contained. Attack vector very small/difficult. Everything encrypted until milliseconds before it's required, in memory.
It could even have forensic marking (For audio), but I doubt it as the licensing costs are too high, and I don't think it is worth the effort myself. But the studios may. The subtitle implementation, I see AR glasses being the path. Custom and likely encrypted signal from device to glasses. i.e. like CineLink(I think it was called, don't remember) in the series 1 projectors.

[Ryan Gallagher]

Honestly I think Dolby is on the correct technology "path" with their latest implementation. It's basically what we are describing except it uses proprietary hardware/software. But it's really just a PC acting as the server/transmitter, a Wifi network, and a bunch of customized android devices. The missing link is making it app driven so anyone's phone could do it, and then adding the layer of the user supplied AR connected glasses. But for latency reasons it made some sense for them to design the app around known hardware (with an aux-battery case, and HAVING a 3.5mm audio jack). Wired headphones are still the way to go... though they did solve the delay/latency issue from the server to the device over wifi at least.

But to get from that to what we are talking about with a more open hardware agnostic model, requires an industry cultural shift, not a technological one. We are basically there on the technology front. Just add Android/iOS proper, and then let there be an ecosystem to develop for a host of paired glasses. The captions and audio tracks could have the same level of encryption/security that the Dolby devices are providing, if any.

WordWatch's implementation doesn't appear to be all that fundamentally different, and also good, except they went ahead and developed a pair of HUD glasses to go with it. And their targeting non-film events already too. Dolby's is strictly about what's coming out of the DCP. But both are very much "venue buys into this system" (or subscribes to a license), and hardware is handed to patrons, and all the woes that come with that approach.

[Steve Guttag]

I don't downplay IR at all. It inherently confines itself to one theatre. Its primary installation downside is you have to get the emitter and cables into the theatre. The other downside is that you rarely cover 100% of the seats due to obstructions or other issues with line-of-sight to the emitter (including reflecting off of the screen). Now, if the panels were mounted near the screen, aside from being a service nightmare, you'd get much better coverage (near 100%).

I'll admit that I haven't played with the DAS system as our clients have been with the USL system. We had a few use the Doremi Fidelio/Captiview and that was a disaster. Numerous failures, dependency on short-lived Android tablets with proprietary software, horrendous troubleshooting capabilities, only AES3 audio in so non-DCP events need a work around, the boxoffice has to program the units or they have to buy a lot of extra units and pre-program them...which in larger plexes gets crazy...it just wasn't a good fit, in our experience. Installation was fast, if you forget about all of that stuff. Updates sucked as you had to carry the tablet around with its cables to each transmitter to do the update. Fortunately, the receivers could be updated via the tray but still. Oh...and because the captions and audio were developed separately, you had two power supplies, with different cables and styles.

I think the only opportunity that the DAS system has is with clients that are not already invested with the USL/MIT system. You still have the AES3 only audio in. You'd think that they would have offered analog as an option, by now.

[Ryan Gallagher]

Having had both Doremi Captiview and Dolby DAS in for festivals. DAS is definitely the better product.

Our only grips with DAS would be WIFI coverage related (and most of those woes are due to it being a single underpowered AP for a relatively large room with a balcony, permanent installs could easily do much better). That and having ushers not versed in how to instruct people on their operation despite a crash course.

But yeah, AES3 only is problematic for a mixed use space like us. We still have an old RF based assisted listening system for our live events. It's also crazy that there is no way to automatically provide a AL mix to the DAS when the DCP authors don't provide one. Our tech that installed it said he will often remap center channel to get them "something", but it's by no means a complete or enjoyable mix.

It's interesting though, their rear panel screenshots for the Brazil version seem to add traditional PC analog inputs/outputs... I wonder if those are usable in the software.
https://professional.dolby.com/produ...r-brazil/#gref

It's kinda crazy that Dolby is so "film only" with their product, when lots of these spaces get used for all kinds of events now. At least WordWatch is trying to tackle that aspect. It's kinda insulting to welcome those communities to premiere festivals by providing new targeted market devices, and then leave them out to dry for all the added content such as intro speeches and Q&As. At least DAS CAN do sign language tracks, which often will have live interpreters for the big festival panels... i'm not sure WordWatch has included that aspect yet, though it seems doable.

Also all are misfits in traditional theatres without cupholders except maybe WordWatch. Captiview and DAS both 100% rely on the existence of cupholders to create comfortable viewing of captions. Some theatres are just never going to have cupholders.

I guess there is nothing stopping someone from getting an event live mix into AES and thus AL for non film events. It's just some extra leg work and hardware potentially.

[Ryan Gallagher]

I suppose I should ask in the Q-SYS thread, but can Q-SYS do things like automatically provide an AL mix-down on the correct AES channel when one does not exist in the DCP?