Gemini Marquee Letters

[Jesse Crooks]

We're restoring the marquee of one of historic theaters and are planning to switch from the Zip Change letter system (letters printed on clear plexiglass) to three dimensional Gemini letters. We're probably going to select the Gemini slotted letters that hang on the rails, but their Snap Lok letters have a more vintage look and would be a better match stylistically. In addition to the letters themselves looking better, we don't like the look of the rails for the slotted letters (they either need to use rivets to secure them or divide each line of text into multiple panels and glue them). The one downside of the Snap Lok (besides the cost) is that it seems like you probably couldn't change them with a pole and would need to do it on a ladder. For us that would mean hauling out a giant extension ladder a couple times a week so it wouldn't be practical.

Does anyone have any experience with the Snap Lok letters? Do you need to change them by hand or is it possible to do it with a pole? Any other pros and cons to consider when comparing the letter systems?

[Bobby Henderson]

I think Gemini's Snap Lok letters are probably their least popular marquee letters. Our sign company has rarely ever sold the things, in part because the letters need to be changed by hand via ladder or something else like a bucket lift or scissor lift. The only attraction I can see with these letters is they have three different looks to them, one of them being the rounded formed plastic look. The letters clip into place on a Snap Lok bar via aluminum clips on the letters. If they can be changed via a long accessory pole that would be news to me.

You might try looking at Gemini's Slotted B letters. Those can be changed by a Slotted B pole. But they only have one style to them, just like the slotted Wagner letters (you can order them in different colors). Both systems are really no different from each other in principal. And all three of these letter systems (Wagner Letters, Gemini Snap Lok and Gemini Slotted B) all require bars to be installed on the sign faces. The bar spacing is such that the amount of copy you can put on a sign face is somewhat limited. You have to be careful which base letter size and bar spacing to choose in case you want to combine that with larger letter sizes.
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A lot more lettering can be displayed on a changeable copy sign face of a given size using Gemini's Pronto letters or Wagner's Zip Change letters. Those flat changeable copy letters cost less, but don't look as nice as the dimensional slotted letters. The Zip Change style track can accumulate dirt and grime. Plus the flat letter panels can sometimes be blown out of the tracks in really bad weather.

These days most of our customers who want changeable message displays are opting for electronic LED-based variable message signs. But those cost quite a lot more than a static "analog" changeable copy sign. And LED signs don't look very "vintage" at all. The LED signs are still very popular because they can show a lot more content and the messages can be updated remotely, even across the Internet if configured in that manner. An old fashioned marquee with Zip Change letters or slotted letters has to be updated in person out in the weather.

[Frank Cox]

And on Thursday night the sign has got to be changed, regardless of the current weather. That's one of the reasons why I don't have an outdoor sign. I've had way too much fun in the past chiselling letters out of tracks when it's -40 and blowing snow.

[Bobby Henderson]

Damn, -40 and blowing snow sounds like freakish miserable weather, even if you're not outside having to swap letters on a changeable copy sign. We have installed hinged "vandal covers" on changeable copy signs -the main purpose being to have a locking cover over the changeable copy face to prevent practical jokers from taking the letters and re-arranging them to spell dirty words, or just steal the letters outright. Vandal covers can also help keep rain snow and ice out of the letter tracks. But vandal covers can be installed on only so large a sign face. If the face is too big the hinged cover will be way too difficult to manage. And vandal covers have to be installed on changeable copy signs that are fairly low to the ground, like a low-profile monument sign. Those are popular with a lot of schools. Movie theater marquees are typically way too large for such an approach.

[Steve Guttag]

I would think, by now, an LED sign could look essentially like a traditional marquee with the bars and 3Dish letters. That is the direction I would go, if it were up to me. I've never really liked the look of Zip-Change and the number of times I see "floating" letters where people don't get that there is an up and down side drives me nuts. Then again, with zip-change there are plenty of opportunities to make missing letters/numbers if you are low on something.

[Mike Croaro]

I've used the snap-lock letters and I prefer them to various kinds of slotted type. They attach firmly to the marquee, and don't blow off in wind or a storm.

[Bobby Henderson]

Snap-Lok letters do stay securely on the bars more than the other kinds of dimensional slotted letters. But, unless I've missed something, you do have to change them by hand (climbing a ladder or using some kind of lift). That's not too bad a deal in San Francisco Bay Area weather. I wouldn't want to do that in the middle of a Summer afternoon in Palm Springs!

I would think, by now, an LED sign could look essentially like a traditional marquee with the bars and 3Dish letters. That is the direction I would go, if it were up to me.

Such a thing is very do-able. But you need to start out with a relatively high resolution LED board, something along the lines of 10mm pitch between pixel centers in order to render the detail of the letters, bars, ribs of the sign face, etc. The Daktronics Galaxy GS6/GT6 outdoor displays we sell come in 26mm, 20mm, 16mm, 10mm and 8mm ranges. 20 years ago most customers were buying very coarse 35mm pitch displays in layouts like 128x32 pixels. Couldn't do much with that. The cost per pixel has come down a great deal. The quality of the LEDs and the technology in general has improved radically. Now we're selling more and more 10mm boards that can show a hell of a lot more detail.

Stock message display software doesn't have a lot of graphics capabilities built in. So a LED image that simulates the retro appearance of a changeable copy sign with slotted letters would need to be created using software like Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop. I would use Illustrator to create all the shapes and letters precisely and then bring the vector paths over into Photoshop to embellish there. I would put the letters on a different layer and apply various bevel and shadow effects to them. Changes from one message to another could be animated easily from within Photoshop. Make the letters of one message slide down the rails and out of the frame and make the letters of a new message slide into view. It's easy to get creative with it. Most message center software can use animated GIF images or movie files like MP4.

[Carsten Kurz]

Can someone tell me how you change these slide-in letters with a pole? Our marquee is only about 2.80m high, and we use a small household ladder. But, I'd like to learn how you do that with a tool from the ground. Do they use a suction cup? How do you release it?

[Bobby Henderson]

The poles to change flat Wagner Zip Change or Gemini Pronto letters have a suction cup on the end to press onto the letter panels. The poles to change slotted letters have a two "claw" kind of grabber thingie on the end.

[Mike Blakesley]

The suction cup letter changer works fine, but it is much faster to get the ladder out and change the letters by hand for us. About the only time the pole gets used is if we have to make an adjustment mid-week, like if a name gets spelled wrong or something.

As much of a pain (and expense) the marquee is, it is by far our best form of advertising and I've had many "tourists" passing through town tell me they came to a movie JUST because of our marquee. I'm pretty picky with our marquee kids about what goes up there and how it looks. One guy said, "I knew with that kind of attention to detail on the marquee that the sound and picture had to be good."

[David Bird]

Carsten, the suction cups generally have a little spot on the back of them where a string is attached, you tie it to the bottom of the pole and a quick pull breaks the suction when placing the letters.
I dare say, I've gotten very quick at changing letters over the years, I stack the new ones in order on the ground and "whap-place-pull the string" and on to the next. I have the luxury of a mostly
grass area though, on concrete you'd need to be far more careful, because on dry days, the suction cup doesn't always hold and those letters break easily. We have an annoying little 6 inch concrete
"lip" at the bottom of the drive-in screen tower, and if the letter slides right down the face after you drop it, the only way to "save" the letter is to get your shin in the way of it. So my shins get a few bruises
each summer from stopping zip-change letter edges falling from about 12 feet. More painful than you'd think!

[Jesse Crooks]

Frank, I'm glad our winters aren't as harsh as yours, but we do currently change the marquee in almost any weather. The only acceptable excuses for waiting a day are lighting or wind so strong that it's blowing the letters down the sidewalk, but we're doing it with a pole. I'd be much more worried about safety issues when you're 20' in the air. We also have to put ladder in the street to get to the front face of the marquee. I get pretty nervous about that because of how oblivious so many drivers are. It's a fire lane but that doesn't stop people from illegally parking there, and a lot of them will drive within a couple feet of you if you don't get out of the way.

For the suction cup style pole, instead of using a string to release it, ours have a wire that pulls the lip of the suction cup back on one side so that it doesn't make a perfect seal. You then twist the pole so that the side of the cup being pulled back releases. I'm guessing the string solution might be better, since with our poles you really have to whack the letters to get them to stick.

[Bob Ezra]

I have been using snaplok letters for 35 yrs, even in Colorado winters. Classic marquee look.