Request for Non-English captions

[Robert Hardage]

Hi,

A patron requested Mandarin subtitles for an upcoming screening (The DCP is in English with closed captions). I told FOH we can't do it...

But can't we? In principle,..IF the patron brings a phone with the appropriate app (which app?) installed, and IF we have a timed text file in the desired language to provide the patron... the patron would open the app and start their caption playback at the start of the movie...

Does anyone know of a solution for this situation?

[Frank Cox]

I think your problem is that neither of your if's currently exist as something that can just be downloaded from some-random-webisite.

Maybe the movie distributor could provide you with a closed caption file in the language that you need (assuming that they made one) and you could just do it with your regular closed captioning hardware. Of course if someone else comes to the same screening and wants English captions you could run into a situation....

[Aaron Tucker]

It sounds like a fun project. Some thoughts:

I think it's definitely possible to convert 429-5 D-Cinema Packaging Timed Text Track MXF file like this:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<DCSubtitle Version="1.0">
  <SubtitleID>345370-c0f4-476d-834e-13332534561</SubtitleID>
    <MovieTitle>Some Movie</MovieTitle>
      <ReelNumber>4</ReelNumber>
        <Language>English</Language>
          <Subtitle SpotNumber="1" TimeIn="00:00:01:083" TimeOut="00:00:02:067">
            <Text HAlign="center" VAlign="bottom" VPosition="17">That's right,</Text>
            <Text HAlign="center" VAlign="bottom" VPosition="10">now move your feet</Text>
           </Subtitle>
          <Subtitle SpotNumber="2" TimeIn="00:00:02:100" TimeOut="00:00:03:150">
             <Text HAlign="center" VAlign="bottom" VPosition="17">-Okay.</Text>
             <Text HAlign="center" VAlign="bottom" VPosition="10">-Good.</Text>
           </Subtitle>
          <Subtitle SpotNumber="3" TimeIn="00:00:03:183" TimeOut="00:00:05:058">
             <Text HAlign="center" VAlign="bottom" VPosition="10">And take aim.</Text>

into a timed text file like this:

1 00:00:01,083 --> 00:00:02:067 That's right, now move your feet
2 00:00:02,100 --> 00:00:03,150 Okay.  Good.
3 00:00:3,058 --> 00:00:05,058 And take aim.

You could perhaps use a program like Notepad++ and do some careful find/replaces, or even better if you know a bit of programming you could write some code to automatically convert it.

Then you could run it through an automated translator to hopefully preserve most of the meaning. Finally, you could create a black video to run on his smart phone, and put the subtitle track you created into that video for him to watch.

[Harold Hallikainen]

Since movies are distributed internationally, there MIGHT be a timed text file for Mandarin available. The QSC/USL closed captioning system supports Chinese with about 65,000 characters in the bitmap chip. I do not believe other systems available support non-Latin character sets. The character set that is supported by systems commonly used in the US is included at https://isdcf.com/papers/ISDCF-Doc9-...-Practices.pdf , A DCP can have up to 6 languages of closed captions, but I have never seen more than one except in test content.

There ARE other systems that use a cell phone application and synchronize to auditorium audio. One is My Lingo ( https://isdcf.com/papers/ISDCF-Doc9-...-Practices.pdf ), but it only appears to have Spanish content. Another similar system is Greta & Starks ( https://zeroproject.org/practice/pra...u-gretastarks/ ). Since it is based in Germany, Karsten can probably comment further as to whether Mandarin is supported.

[Carsten Kurz]

Is that DCP encrypted? If yes, then the only solution would be an external one. There are some solutions to play subtitles/closed captions on smartphones or tablets, but none of them to my knowledge are 'open' in the sense that you can just upload an arbitrary file to the service. You need to supply assets to a service company for them to prepare the set, and they will of course charge for that.

Is that a 'normal' public screening with just one patron demanding mandarin? Then the answer you gave is the only proper answer under these conditions.

I once created a shortfilm DCP with a couple of subtitled versions. Mandarin among them. The other 9 languages went easy-peasy, but the Mandarin needed some professional help and QC to get it right. You may end up with some cryptic chars showing up on screen and that patron watching being quite embarrassed, or laughing his head off. Never do subtitles in a language that you don't understand yourself.

A pragmatic non-professional solution is to play the movie in VLC. There are huge collections of SRTs on the Internet, and maybe a mandarin file does already exist. Maybe the movie is already available in non-DCP format, e.g. on Bluray or DVD. Still, a lot of effort needed for a single show/patron.

- Carsten

[Marcel Birgelen]

It sounds like a fun project. Some thoughts:

I think it's definitely possible to convert 429-5 D-Cinema Packaging Timed Text Track MXF file like this:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<DCSubtitle Version="1.0">
<SubtitleID>345370-c0f4-476d-834e-13332534561</SubtitleID>
<MovieTitle>Some Movie</MovieTitle>
<ReelNumber>4</ReelNumber>
<Language>English</Language>
<Subtitle SpotNumber="1" TimeIn="00:00:01:083" TimeOut="00:00:02:067">
<Text HAlign="center" VAlign="bottom" VPosition="17">That's right,</Text>
<Text HAlign="center" VAlign="bottom" VPosition="10">now move your feet</Text>
</Subtitle>
<Subtitle SpotNumber="2" TimeIn="00:00:02:100" TimeOut="00:00:03:150">
<Text HAlign="center" VAlign="bottom" VPosition="17">-Okay.</Text>
<Text HAlign="center" VAlign="bottom" VPosition="10">-Good.</Text>
</Subtitle>
<Subtitle SpotNumber="3" TimeIn="00:00:03:183" TimeOut="00:00:05:058">
<Text HAlign="center" VAlign="bottom" VPosition="10">And take aim.</Text>

into a timed text file like this:

1 00:00:01,083 --> 00:00:02:067 That's right, now move your feet
2 00:00:02,100 --> 00:00:03,150 Okay. Good.
3 00:00:3,058 --> 00:00:05,058 And take aim.

You could perhaps use a program like Notepad++ and do some careful find/replaces, or even better if you know a bit of programming you could write some code to automatically convert it.

Then you could run it through an automated translator to hopefully preserve most of the meaning. Finally, you could create a black video to run on his smart phone, and put the subtitle track you created into that video for him to watch.

I could dream up a few lines of Python code to do this conversion, maybe there even is an SRT-player app for Android and/or iOS, but how do you keep both in sync? Mobile phones are notorious for their hardcore power management. How good are the precision timers on those phones? It would be interesting to see how much stuff is still in-sync after 2 hours of continuous playback.

[Robert Hardage]

Thank you for the responses/ideas. Intriguing topic.

From Aaron's response, I realized that we (the cinema) CAN do this, in principle, for unencrypted material. Of course there is no review and edit by a fluent speaker (or it's not practical, at the scale of a single cinema providing for a request from a single patron)

From what I can tell looking at the smartphone apps (e.g. Greta), it appears they provide content (captions/audio tracks) which they purchase form the studios (for those titles /languages for which it is available). The same content could (could it not?) get from the studio to the patron the same way the main picture and sound do: through the distributor and the cinema (twhich seems like a better deal for the movie goer). Encryption presents an obstacle, but a seemingly surmountable one (i.e surmountable by the studios and distributors, depending on their resolve/business model).

One way would involve sending multiple CCAP tracks into the auditoriums.

I did not think/realize this was possible.

Reading Harold's response -- and reading over the upc-28c transmitter manual (this is the system we have installed) -- I gather it IS possible to play CCAPs in different languages simultaneously.

The DCP would include multiple (up to 6) closed caption tracks (in the same VF?) -- the server would identify the available tracks and pass that on to captioning system ... the reason I've never encountered such a DCP is that it just isn't common practice to produce adn distribute them?

(I AM confused on how a patron would select their desired language. With the CCR-100 receivers, for instance??)

[Harold Hallikainen]

The CCR-100 receiver has a language button on the side. If there are multiple languages being transmitted, the user just pushes the button multiple times until a recognized language shows up. Somewhere I have video of the CCR-100 running Korean and Japanese. The Sony and CaptiView systems also support multiple languages but are limited to the character set shown at https://isdcf.com/papers/ISDCF-Doc9-...-Practices.pdf , so I don't think they would handle Mandarin.

[Robert Hardage]

Oh... indeed it does!

[Barry Floyd]

A simple temporary workaround might be to have the patrons use the "Theater Ears" app. Often times, they have the option for Mandarin. We use it for our patrons at the drive-in who want to listen to the film in Spanish. The app is free, and dialog is available for most major new releases. We had folks using it on Saturday night at our place to listen to "No Time to Die" in Spanish.

The app is pretty simple. The patrons "check in" to the theatre once they arrive. They can select their feature and download the audio file in their preferred language from the app. Once the movie starts, they press a button in the app to let the app "listen" to the dialog playing in the auditorium and it automatically synchs the downloaded audio track to the correct place in the film. It works well at the drive-in, don't see why it wouldn't work in an indoor settings as well.

[Frank Cox]

And then you have the light from everyone's cellphone blazing away throughout the auditorium?

*shudder*

I always try to stamp that sort of thing out.

[Ed Gordon]

Here is more information on Barry's suggested "Theater Ears" app:

Universal Pictures has partnered with audio tech company TheaterEars to offer Chinese-speaking moviegoers and their families the chance to experience DreamWorks Animation and Pearl Studio’s Abominable in Mandarin. By using the TheaterEars app, users will be able to go into any of the 4,000+ U.S. theaters showing the China-set animated adventure and listen to the Mandarin dubbed audio track, produced by Pearl Studio, in their earbuds while the English-language film plays on screen— all in real time and at no additional cost. The partnership marks the first time ever that a nationally released Hollywood movie has offered a Chinese audio option. Additionally, Universal and TheaterEars will also offer Spanish audio for the film.

[Harold Hallikainen]

Interesting! There have been various applications that synchronize to auditorium audio. Theater Ears is at https://www.theaterears.com/ .

I think studios would prefer to deliver everything in the DCP instead of this "side-car delivery," but this is what's available now. There has been some talk about adding more audio tracks to the DCP to provide separate audio feeds to individual users in other languages. Most of the existing 16 mainsound channels have been allocated ( https://isdcf.com/papers/ISDCF-Doc4-...mendations.pdf ). There has been some discussion about using AuxData tracks in the DCP to carry additional languages. This would also be a good place to put sign language video, but a lack of support for AuxData tracks in existing hardware put sign language video in mainsound and had kept additional audio languages from being put in the DCP.

[Aaron Tucker]

Another idea, to get around the encrypted subtitles problem, would be to pull the subtitles from the USL emitter's debug webpage in real-time, translate each line of dialogue individually in real-time, and display them on a simple locally hosted web page that the customer could connect to via wifi on their phone. The latency might be an issue, though, especially for fast moving dialogue. If there's a translator library that could be hosted locally instead of relying on internet translators then it might be fast enough to be usable.

You could even cache the translations so that they only need to be done once, which removes the latency problem. I'm not sure if saving that information would violate copyright and/or the exhibition agreement though.

[Jim Cassedy]

Almost all of these ideas, although technically possible, would take a significant amount of time. (and time=money)
It might be cheaper & easier to buy the patron a ticket to China and have he/she watch the movie there.