What UPS to pick for Barco SP2K-7 and SP2K-15?

[Perry Mulder]

Dear cinema friends,

At the end of the year we hope to open our new cinema in the Netherlands
We are now in the final order stage and I now have to pick a UPS to connect to the Barco SP2K-7 (0,9kW) and SP2K-15 (1,5kW).
Our previous Sony Projector SRX-R510P was connected to a APC SMC1500I-2UC.
This APC SMC1500I-2UC is a line-interactive, 1,5 kVA output power capacity, 900w output, sinus, VRLA rackmount model.
I think this is the UPS used in most cinema's? I was just wondering if there were alternatives to this model as the prices of this model went up a little in my region and also I read that some prefer to hook their projector up to a double-conversion (online) ups, instead of a line-interactive ups with pure sinus instead of sinus.
Also is the smart-connect option you find on the APC a must on Barco projectors? Or can you do without that feature from APC?

Cheaper alternative rack-models I found were these below, does anyone use them or recommand one?:

FSP Champ Rack 2K: 2kVA, 1800W, Pure sinus, double-conversion (online)
Cyberpower OLS1500ERT2UA: 1,5kVA, 1350W, Pure sinus, double-conversion (online)
Emerson GXT5: 1kVA, 1000watt, Pure sinus, double-conversion (online)
PowerWalker VFI 1500 RMG PF1:1,5kVA, 1500W, sinus, Double-conversion (online)

Eaton Ellipse PRO 1600 DIN: 1,6kVA, 1000W, Pure sinus, Line-interactive
Salicru SPS Advance RT2 Line-interactive sine-wave UPS: 2kVA, 1800W, Pure sinus, Line-interactive

Looking forward to your feedback on the above or hear what UPS you are using for your projectors,

Perry.

[Jack Ondracek]

I have a feeling this one will be as much personal choice as "whats the best xenon bulb?"

My Barcos were installed with Tripp-Lite Smar1500LCD models, as well as the 220 volt version of the same. They have removable rack ears.

They use a fairly standard 12 volt batteries, which last around 5 - 7 years.

The Tripp-Lite worked so well for me that I've standardized it at the broadcast transmitter sites I maintain.

I've also used APC and Cyberpower with good results

[Marcel Birgelen]

You're based in the Netherlands and unless you're on the end of the line of some god forgotten hamlet, carefully consider the added value of UPSes. I'm saying this, because:

- Power in the Netherlands is usually very stable and in more than half of the outages that occur, the UPS will not bridge the outage anyway, unless you invest in generator backup.
- A UPS can buy you time to neatly shut-down systems, but this is often highly dependent on compatibility of all kinds of interfaces and in practice, it almost never works.
- Advice for UPSes from overseas are pretty much useless over here.
- I've seen all kinds of drama with UPSes from all brands over the years. This includes smoke, real fire and tremendous property damage.
- APC are about the worst you can get. Yes, everybody uses them, but their small models, including their smaller rack models are the real garbage. Just last year I had one that filled the room with smoke and had the fire department show up. Right now, I'm facing 3 seperate APC rack UPSes which are about one year old and which all complain that their battery has gone bad. APC is still "debugging" the situation, meanwhile, all those systems are unprotected.

There have been setups where I removed the UPSes to increase reliability...

That being said, if I'd were you, I'd go for the Eaton Ellipse. While I've had some trouble with Eaton UPSes too, none of them have yet gone up in flames. (knock on wood)... Stay away from APC as much as you can. I will NEVER EVER put any active APC equipment inside of my own property...

[Steve Guttag]

Oddly, I've never had an APC give any grief. Tripplite, which is substantially cheaper in the USA do okay...but if their batteries die, they play complete possum and appear completely dead, until new batteries are installed. They do not, in the models I've worked with (SMART and SU (smart online...double conversion)) bypass themselves when they die for any reason. Conversely, I have not had that problem from APC.

I prefer double-conversion UPSes so the equipment doesn't even see a blip on a power issue. I went over-spec for one of my Q-SYS theatres where a pair of CORE 510s run 9 screens...those APC double-conversion units (1500VA) have kept the COREs and related equipment up for multiple hours.

[Carsten Kurz]

It's true that, so far, power net stability in europe is so high that you hardly can rectify a UPS. As Marcel says - the only power issues I ever had in germany were caused by the UPS itself.

That said: We had no issues in 10 years with the Triplite that came with our Sony. Which was not even a very expensive unit. Unfortunately, that type is no longer available.

APC have been notorious for cooking batteries. The reason may be that their charging policy is to make sure the battery is recharged as quickly as possible in order to be ready for the next brownout (which, in some areas of the world, happen quickly after another). A positive side effect for APC is that they can sell more (expensive) replacement batteries.

Our Triplite handles batteries more carefully. A full recharge may take a full day. But, our Triplite is now in it's 10th year, and still on the first battery set. I wish I could set the recharge policy of a UPS myself, because in areas with a very solid power grid, a conservative charging current seems to be a better choice. Especially if the UPS is only used to properly shut down equipment, not keep it running through a power outage - which in turn means, the battery will usually only have to sustain operation for a few minutes and remain charged to a high percentage.

Probably not an option for you, but if I currently needed another UPS, I personally would try to get the same Triplite I already use on the second hand market.

And I have to admit, I haven't touched any of the current offerings of APC, other people certainly have more experience with them.

Steve - I have a couple of APCs in my basement that play perfectly dead with weak batteries. Sometimes, they recharge, sometimes they power up. Admittedly, all older SmartUPS. They also do not bypass. Current APCs may play nicer, you certainly have more experience with them.

[Marcel Birgelen]

Those APC UPSes you have over there in the states are completely different models, so it makes little to no sense to compare them with each other.

My experience with APC has been accumulated in the field in various sectors over more than 25 years or so. I've also been (co-)responsible for some very big APC setups, but those were mostly problem-free. Those big UPSes also were from a different design, mostly going back to the MGE division they've taken over a few years back.

My personal favorite obviously are the double-conversion-style UPSes, but they're also the least efficient. You still see them in many datacenter and other high-availability designs, but with current power prices over here, people tend to look very critically at those efficiency numbers.

The horror stories of a whole building going up in flames have been from about 15 years back, but they were triggered by a SmartUPS going up in flames, as determined by the insurance company. And like I said, as recently as last year I had one go up in smoke. Right now, we're having three SmartUPSes in the field with dead batteries, two of them only a year old, the other about two years, so that's why APC is currently "investigating", as they suspect a software issue...

Like Carsten indicated: Battery problems seem to be the norm with those smaller APCs: those batteries usually won't last you two summers long and with those hot days right now, I expect a lot more of them to die, especially those operating in some badly ventilated overheated closet.

[Pete Naples]

We use APC here in the UK almost exclusively, the DSN and DFP VPF rollouts did too.

Other than battery replacement, they give very little trouble.

Now part of Schneider Electric, one of the more respected names in power distro.

[Gordon McLeod]

Funny we have had terrible luck with the Schneider TVSS's compared to the Levitons

[Perry Mulder]

Hi All,

Thanks for the input so far. To clarify a few things:

- I only want the UPS so that if the power goes out during a show, that the projector will be able to cool itself down via the backup power and shut itself down after that. I've been told this is best for the lifetime of the projector. It's not so that the audience can finish the film. I understand that there will never be enough power to do so. All three auditoriums have a AuroMax installation via Q-sys with about 52.000 Watt's rated amp power per auditorium:-)

- As mentioned above by most, in the Netherlands the powernet is super stable, so I don't need the UPS for brownouts as we almost never have one.

- Are there cinema's that do not use a UPS for their projector? I tought powering down a projector in a incorrect way damages the projector instantly?

- I'm placing the Barco's on a MN Mounting PAP-500/18U, a multi-purpose projector pedestal, so that's why I prefer to use a rack mount UPS, as the rack is already there.

- How does the UPS tell the projector that the projector needs to shut down incase of abrupt power outage? Do you need to install that into a software? Or does the UPS give a signal to the projector mechanically via a wire or something?


So far what I read is that it's best to go with a double-conversion unit incase you want a UPS (knowing it has more power consumption) and right now I'm leaning towards the FSP Champ Rack 2K: 2kVA, 1800W, Pure sinus, double-conversion (online) and also use one for the Q-sys 510 server and my self build TMS server. Film delivery will go via UniqueX, with their Rosetta Bridge, while also making use of BaseKey, a KDM delivery tool.

Feel free to give feedback, I enjoy reading the different experiences with the UPS's

[Carsten Kurz]

Barcos equipped for split/UPS supply will have a second AC Inlet (or internal rewiring) to allow a direct mains connection to the lamp ballast. If mains fails, the lamp simply goes out, but the fans continue to cool them, powered by the UPS. In theory, and with smaller projectors and a higher rated UPS, you could have the light source on the UPS as well, and then perform a controlled lamp shutdown. Most current UPS still support a simple dry contact, which could be fed into the projector GPIO, and power off the lamp in a controlled manner.
I certainly would not have the lamp/laser light source running on an online/double conversion UPS, the energy cost/loss would be ridiculous.

You probably know that the Sony you had before only had the server on the UPS, mainly to protect the RAID. The projector was completely without brownout protection. Generally, shutting off a lamp/projector the hard way is not recommended, but it doesn't necessarily kill the hardware. I mean, there is a mains switch on every projector that is unprotected, so, it could happen any time. I don't know if the current bread of laser Barcos show a specific weakness there. Better talk to Barco directly.

- Carsten

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

Oddly, I've never had an APC give any grief. Tripplite, which is substantially cheaper in the USA do okay...but if their batteries die, they play complete possum and appear completely dead, until new batteries are installed. They do not, in the models I've worked with (SMART and SU (smart online...double conversion)) bypass themselves when they die for any reason. Conversely, I have not had that problem from APC.

I prefer double-conversion UPSes so the equipment doesn't even see a blip on a power issue. I went over-spec for one of my Q-SYS theatres where a pair of CORE 510s run 9 screens...those APC double-conversion units (1500VA) have kept the COREs and related equipment up for multiple hours.

But there is a bypass panel available for the Tripplites, which if I remember correctly you install as standard gear for when the batteries do head south..

[Steve Guttag]

Yes, they do make a bypass switch as an external accessory. I, on the other hand, have opted to go for an Automatic Transfer Switch (ATS). A problem with commercial ATS is that they require a double conversion UPS because they have a think about zero-crossing and will freakout when the City power drops and the UPS is switching to the battery at the exact same time. With double-conversion UPSes, the transition is invisible. Our standard ATS, however, is a suitable DPDT relay...which works on ANY UPS.