Smpte 430-10/430-11

[Chris Horak]

Back with more fun questions...

I'm interested in putting something together that could feed (let's say) a Dolby AccessLink with captions, and not necessarily from a DCP. Something you could supply your own captions as a means to use closed captioning receiving devices with alternative content.

Does anyone know of an exhaustive list of devices or software that have implemented SMPTE 430-10/430-11? (Aside from the obvious, i.e. DCI servers.)

[Harold Hallikainen]

The latest version of the firmware for the USL/QSC/MIT IRC-28C supports live captions through a web form or TCP command.

[James Gardiner]

Only comment on this is that.. I would expect some on DCI may frown on this as... This would mean, non-vetted or non-director-approved experience could result.
Standard are standards and open to all. So good luck with your work but be careful of that hot potato.

[Harold Hallikainen]

On the IRC-28C, the live captions replace the "welcome message" that runs when content is not running (as indicated by the OutputMode request in 430-10). When content is running, the captions from the content run.

Harold

[Leo Enticknap]

I would expect some on DCI may frown on this as...

Chris was writing about playing alternative content, not alternative captions with DCI content. If you're not playing DCI content, they can frown all they like: it has nothing to do with them.

I'm guessing that what Chris has in mind is ripping the closed captions or subtitles from a BD, for example, and playing them through a Captiview reader (a MiT, formerly USL, one). IMHO it would likely be easier to simply convert the BD to a DCP, including the closed captions, though.

[James Gardiner]

Chris was writing about playing alternative content, not alternative captions with DCI content. If you're not playing DCI content, they can frown all they like: it has nothing to do with them.

Oh, for alternate content. Yes, in that case, not applicable. Silly me.
And yes, the best path would be to re-create any alternate content into DCP and use the equipment as intended for a reliable result.
There are free tools to convert an srt and other caption files to DCP xml ones. Add that to DCP-O-Matic and a totally free workflow is possible.

[Chris Horak]

For the most part, Leo has the right train of thought! Agreed on converting pre-recorded alternative content to DCP to use the equipment as intended, although I'm really looking for something that could support live captioning (in cinema). I'll have to look into the MiT offering. I wonder how hard it is to implement a SMPTE 430-10/430-11 server for custom needs...

[Harold Hallikainen]

430-10 (Auxiliary Content Synchronization Protocol) and 430-11 (Resource Presentation List) are really designed for playback of prerecorded content. 430-10 provides a link to the Resource Presentation List (SetRplLocation request). The captioning system fetches the RPL (XML file containing the URLs of all auxiliary content for a show or composition with the time (in edit units) that content is to be used, and the duration of the content). The captioning equipment then fetches the referenced timed text files, parses them, determines the actual time the caption will be used from TimeIn, TimeOut, StartTime in the timed text file and Offset, EntryPoint, and Duration from the RPL. 430-10 sends a SetTimeline request to tell the device the PlayoutID of the RPL to be played and the timeline position playout will start. 430-10 then sends a SetOutputMode on request to start playback and occasionally sends SetTimeline to update the local clock.

Also see https://isdcf.com/papers/ISDCF-SMPTE...es20180308.pdf .



Harold

[Carl Hetherington]

There are free tools to convert an srt and other caption files to DCP xml ones. Add that to DCP-O-Matic and a totally free workflow is possible.

You can also just add a SRT file to a DCP-o-matic project, set it to "closed caption" and make the DCP that way, if you like.

[Carsten Kurz]

A few times I thought wether the communication between DCP-o-matic player and it's closed caption 'display module' could be implemented through IP the SMPTE 430 way. That way, DCP-o-matic player could become a fully compliant closed caption server and display device (i.e. towards a display or projector, or text output)

[Ryan K Georgieff]

Hey guys,

Sorry to be a necromancer but this thread had me wondering about the ability to stream Closed Captions to say a website or streaming player so it would keep time with the film but be accessible to everyone with a phone. which these days is everyone.

i was thinking about using the rs232 that goes to the RWC but not sure about the protocol which lead me this thread.

off hand anyone know a model number and maker of a RWC can't seem to find any information. Doremi had a pdf about Capview and RWC but didn't have any information passed there AccessLink.

[Harold Hallikainen]

The IRC has web display of captions for debug. You would have have the browser on the auditorium network. It also does not support a lot of users at once. The Ethernet board inside the IRC has an rs232 output that can drive Rear Window. Note that RW includes a bunch of unique control codes and sends text in reverse order, right to left. Good luck!

[Ryan K Georgieff]

ah thanks! which irc has the rs232? the irc-28c doesn't according to the manual and we only have a irc21 so no closed caption

[Harold Hallikainen]

The captioning daughterboard in the IRC-28C has a 5 pin header that goes to the main board. Two pins are +5V, two are ground, and one is the RS232 output. MANY years ago, there was discussion with WGBH about putting that board inside the Rear Window display, so we added the RS232 port. It never went anywhere. There is also an old product, the CCE-100 ( https://hallikainen.org/usl/ftp.usli...100_Manual.pdf ), that has an RS232 port on the rear panel. It can output Rear Window text. I seem to remember another option in the RS232 setting that was for a "USL Caption Display." This output left to right text and used standard control codes. The USL caption display, which never went into production, projected captions onto a screen below the movie screen. They were only visible to people wearing polarized glasses.

Harold

[Jason Sharp]

That sound's like a very interesting system Harold. Do you know why that project was abandoned?