DCP-O-Matic: Converted DVD missing "some" audio...?

[Mike Blakesley]

OK here I am with another confusing DCP-O-Matic conversion question.

I'm converting the original Shrek for a private showing from a DVD (not a Blu-ray, sadly). The DVD has a 5.1 soundtrack and I'm getting audio in all the channels, but the "lead voice" seems to be missing from the center channel. The audio options when ripping the disk in MakeMKV are DD Surround 5.1 English, DD Stereo English, and a couple other other languages. I have both of the two English options checked -- should I uncheck one of them?

You can hear the opening narration just fine because it comes out of the L and R channels, and when characters start talking, sometimes you hear faint versions of what they're saying out of the L and R. And music and efx come out of center channel, so only the dialog from that channel is missing.

Oh Film Tech Experts, what am I doing wrong? I have till Thursday to get this fixed or else I'll just have to run the DVD which I hate to do.

[Armand Daiguillon]

I dont think your issue is with DCP o Matic, I think its more likely the source file you ripped from dvd.
I'd suggest ripping a smaller portion (just 1 chapter) and trying the different audio setting on your ripping software until you find one that works.
I do this all the time as well often with regular repetory bookings since the dvd booking is usually cheaper.

Good luck !!

[Mike Blakesley]

True, I assume the problem is more with MakeMKV than anything. I'm trying a couple of other options. Thanks. It's weird how I can do a dozen movies and they'll all work fine, and then all of a sudden one goes rogue despite me using the same settings as always.

[Mike Blakesley]

Hmm. I may have to give up. I tried with just the Stereo L-R setting and it gave me the same results, no center voices but also no surround sound. When I tried it with just the 5.1 Surround selected, it appeared all the sound was there, but it didn't sync up with the action, was off by a couple of seconds even though the audio delay in DCP was set to 0.

[Frank Cox]

Have you tried playing the DVD on your television? Does it sound right?

[Carl Hetherington]

It would be interesting to know where you are seeing these problems. Is it in the theater with the DCP? Or in the DCP-o-matic preview? Or when playing back the DVD rip with some other software?

[Mike Blakesley]

Well first I went ahead with the conversion on my usual settings that have always worked, and tried it out in the theater. That's when the "no voices from the center channel" problem happened. Everything since then has been making new MKVs and then previewing them in DCP-O-Matic.

I don't have much experience with converting DVDs on DCP-O-Matic -- usually I only work with Blu-Rays.

[Marcel Birgelen]

I would check only the DD Surround 5.1 English option to avoid confusion. Maybe you converted the Stereo track and it contains some kind of matrix encoded version? You're using an Ovation 2, right? Maybe the decoder detects some Matrix encoded sound like DD ProLogic in there and that's where stuff goes haywire?

And yeah, like you said yourself, DVDs really are a pretty horrible source for DCPs, especially those for the US region at 30i, where you get both the "benefits" of de-interlacing, 3:2 pull-down combined with the rather terrible resolution... In my region it's available on Netflix, it will probably look better if you stream it from there. :P

[Mike Blakesley]

I actually tried streaming Netflix at the theater one time for fun using an adapter and an iPad. It would work for Youtube or websites or anything, but once I started up a movie on Netflix the picture from the projector would go black. I can't remember if the sound played or not.

[Carsten Kurz]

That was probably a copy protection issue, HDCP. It should work, though. You should also use the latest version of DCP-o-matic, since some earlier versions had sync issues with some NTSC DVDs.
No way to dig up the Bluray version of this title? I only buy Bluray now, just for the reason that at some point in time I may need to use it as a source for a DCP. The proper 24fps frame rate is reason enough.

[Jon Dent]

And yeah, like you said yourself, DVDs really are a pretty horrible source for DCPs, especially those for the US region at 30i, where you get both the "benefits" of de-interlacing, 3:2 pull-down combined with the rather terrible resolution... In my region it's available on Netflix, it will probably look better if you stream it from there. :P

Most NTSC DVDs that were derived from film sources actually have video encoded at 23.976fps progressive, but it outputs at 29.97 or 59.94i (for the real old school viewers) because of flags in the MPEG file that tell the player to perform a real-time telecine.

You still have crappy resolution and compression but the frame rate shouldn't be an issue.

[Jim Cassedy]

I actually tried streaming Netflix at the theater one time for fun using an adapter and an iPad. It would
work for Youtube or websites or anything, but once I started up a movie on Netflix the picture from the
projector would go black. I can't remember if the sound played or not.

It's a combination of HDCP and DRM issues. I've run into this "problem" on jobs where I've been asked to stream
content from Netflix, or Amazon Prime at one of the screening rooms I sometimes work at. For the Netflix event, I
literally had the producer of the show there, who didn't want to bring a blu-ray of his program because he said
"It would look better if we streamed it" (Those of you who are unfortunate enough to read all my posts, probably
know by now that just about every time I've had to work with people from NETFLIX, APPLE TV, or AMAZON
STUDIOS, they've displayed an absolute total lack of anything having to do with theatrical exhibition or even
the existence of any aspect ratio other than 16x9)

I KNEW this was going to happen, so I have a way around it, using a device I have in my "tool-bag of tricks".
The 2nd option that sometimes works would be to stream it in SD which often lacks the same content
protection flags found on the HD streams.

[Mike Blakesley]

No way to dig up the Bluray version of this title?

I didn't have enough time. They only requested the movie on Monday and the show is tomorrow. Normally if the client doesn't provide me a BluRay I'll order it from Amazon, but it takes a week for the Prime "two day" service to get here, unfortunately.

[Jim Cassedy]

Converted DVD missing "some" audio...?

Last night, I ran a 35mm screening of a movie from 1972, with a good ol' pre-Dolbyized mono sound
track, which sounded astonishingly good when I stepped into the auditorium for a sound check.
Sometimes, "less is more" - - (I'm just sayin. . . )

--> Bonus Info: It was a nice, vintage IB-Tech print in pretty decent shape, and only marred by
the fact that every reel had more cues than a pool hall. There were lab dots, multicolored grease
pencil slashes, and poor attempts at scribed circles made by some pinhead with a pin head.
So with so many cues to choose from, I just picked a set I liked & winged it.
Fortunately every c/o occurred on a scene change, & there was some 'scene slop' to work with,
so exact timing wasn't uber-critical. I don't think anyone in the audience noticed- - they were
probably too distracted by the "Amazing Technicolor® " image & magnificent mono sound !

[Steve Guttag]

Oh, in many ways less is more. Something that mono tracks forced was not burying the dialog. One had to fit everything in that confined space. Heck, a lot of phonograph records people will prefer the mono version over the stereo too (especially in the early days of stereo when multi-tracking was much more limited).