Monitor for between Blu-Ray and projector/IMB

[Dennis Benjamin]

Hello,

I am looking for a professional monitor that can be used when playing a Blu-Ray player through an NEC laser projector and/or a GDC SR-1000. This monitor would be used to 'stage' the video content before opening the dowser. Getting past the menus, etc. Can someone recommend a brand and model number?

Thanks.

[Agnius Acus]

You don‘t need a professional monitor for that. You need a simple HDMI splitter. Any monitor would do.

[Dennis Benjamin]

Agnius,

They have been doing this. They are looking for a professional solution for this. I feel like there should be something out there that exists.

[Steve Guttag]

Well, no not really. A "simple monitor" will likely limit you to 1080p/60 Most movies on Blu-ray are 1080p/24 or 2160/24. A "simple HDMI splitter" can absolutely screw you as to how it may handle HDCP and EDID. You want to let the projector get the native resolution/frame rate of the movie and, depending on how you are handling sound you could have even more challenges. Now, if you are the kind that will show Blu-rays converted up to 60Hz and live with the judder, so be it.

Finding 24Hz monitors is tricky. You will find it easier to find TVs that support 24Hz.

As for splitters, it depends on the projector and the source as to how fussy it will be with a repeater in line (the splitter). You might get lucky and then again, you might find that 15 minutes in the movie the screen blanks out for a few seconds for no apparent reason. I, recently, had to rip out "simple splitters" that would work, sometimes, for some much pricier Extron distribution amps that would keep the different displays separate and not pollute the EDID/HDCP...it acts as a sink and source on its own for keeping HDCP clean. The problems vanished after that...and those monitors where/are 24p monitors (TVs). Invariably, I find that the projectors have a harder time than the monitor/TV being stable.

But if you really are going to set up a preview/program system, you should either consider a proper HDMI matrix switcher and dealing with the audio as well or also consider AV over IT with things like Visionary Solutions. Their decoders will scale and frame rate convert to the display they are connected to. So you can use a low-cost monitor for cueing up and have the projector get whatever is on the disc.

If you get into QSYS, with Visionary Solutions, you can also put a preview on your touchscreen or other UCI. It isn't a real-time update (something like each second) but for merely cueing up, it is sufficient and you know what the source is.

[Agnius Acus]

Well... Here you go: https://smallhd.com/pages/indie-5#shop-now

[Marcel Birgelen]

Well... Here you go: https://smallhd.com/pages/indie-5#shop-now

That will not work. Those monitoring screens don't support HDCP.

Agnius,

They have been doing this. They are looking for a professional solution for this. I feel like there should be something out there that exists.

Well, they're contradicting themselves. Blu-Ray is a consumer format and there are little to no "professional solutions" that play nice with it.

If you want a HDMI splitter solution that works, as in, supports 4K, HDCP and almost all wonky consumer formats that can go over HDMI and will also fix any EDID issues then buy a TV that fits and HD-Fury Integral.

If that's not professional enough, but a more expensive HD-Fury and a more expensive TV for monitoring.

[Steve Guttag]

I don't believe the HD-Fury will handle frame rate conversion. So, you, again, are stuck with getting a "TV" that understands 24fps. Extron has a suitable scaler but it is a tough pill to swallow to spend so much money on the preview monitor electronics so you can use a low-cost (and likely smaller) monitor. I, often, will have an audio downscaler too so 2-channels can go to preview while whatever the source has can go to the theatre (e.g. an Atlona AT-HDR-M2C). Nobody is making a small 4K/24 TV, that I can find and even 1080/24 TVs are getting harder to find in a rack friendly package. There was some LG models that were around for low cost and could be rackmounted that were 1080/24 safe...the 24" model may still be available (and it was a 720p monitor but it accepted 1080p/24 and 1080p/60 signals just fine).

It's a struggle.

I miss the Oppo BDP-103...it had dual HDMI out, which solved the monitor issue. But it is long gone and wasn't a 4K player. We currently use Tascam's BD-MP1 and BD-MP4K for our "professional" Blu-ray players (they are 1U tall, come with rackmounts and we've developed a user component for them for Q-SYS.

[Marcel Birgelen]

I don't believe the HD-Fury will handle frame rate conversion. So, you, again, are stuck with getting a "TV" that understands 24fps.

It will happily scale in the 2D realm of resolutions and it does a pretty good job at it at very low latencies, but it will indeed not do frame rate conversions. That's why you want a TV and not a PC monitor. Most SAMSUNG and LG TVs will do 24p, some may need some extra convincing and you probably want to disable all kinds of image enhancers that are enabled by default, but native 24p has been a thing for a while now and hence most TVs support it without too much hassles.

Another option is to keep it at 60p... Yeah, I said that. But to be honest, most people will not see a 6:4 pulldown at 60 fps and I've tested this in some not very representative blind test.
Personally, I can't stand the judder this creates, especially in panning shots, but I guess most people have seen this effect on TV so often nowadays, they've become immune to it.

As for rack-mountable TVs: There are plenty of rack-mountable VESA mounts out there, but if the TV needs to fit INSIDE the rack or inside the 19" boundaries of the rack, your options start to become small. There was a time when the smallest TV you could buy would actually shrink every year, but now, it seems we're evolving the other side around. TVs only become larger every year...

Those broadcast monitors often fit neatly into those racks and will happily take 24p, but they usually only operate in the realm of unencrypted HDMI and SDI. Native 2K and DCI-4K monitors are extremely hard to find, heck, even a camera company like RED doesn't offer any native 2K or 4K monitors with their gear. I guess since Blu-Ray doesn't operate in DCI resolution space but in "broadcast space", for this particular solution any normal FullHD/4K monitor will probably do fine.

I miss the Oppo BDP-103...it had dual HDMI out, which solved the monitor issue. But it is long gone and wasn't a 4K player. We currently use Tascam's BD-MP1 and BD-MP4K for our "professional" Blu-ray players (they are 1U tall, come with rackmounts and we've developed a user component for them for Q-SYS.

I don't think I know a single 4K player out there with a dual (active) HDMI-out option, so whenever you want to monitor the output, you'll always need some signal splitter device.

We're slowly entering the realm where even 4K players will meet their eventual demise. Since all major studios essentially stopped producing physical records, the days of those players being readily available are numbered.

We've discussed this here in great detail before, but whenever possible, I rather would go the Blu-Ray to DCP conversion route, whenever time and circumstances allow.

[Ryan Gallagher]

We have a nice monitor in our rack for this, but even it does not support 24p sync. Wasn’t too long ago that I learned we were showing 3:2 pulldown on screen when showing blu-rays due to this. *face palm*

the options are all pretty “non-pro” unless you can afford a scaler that supports hdcp and/or a monitor that will do 24p etc. All the methods to remove hdcp are very touch and go trial and error with the cheapest splitter/converters out there, unless you live in a region HD-Fury will give you a unlock for that feature.

My 4k Lenovo think-vision monitors at home at least are confirmed to support all that. But they are at home. ;-)

[Agnius Acus]

I‘m missing something. Could somebody explain?

Why do you need a 24 Hz TV/monitor? To upconvert 24,967 Hz signal and passthrough it to IMS, while removing HDCP?

I think most Blu-ray players can already upconvert the signal to 24 Hz, so why HD-Fury Integral would not be sufficient?

In this scenario, you would not need a professional monitor with SDI or HDMI output, any monitor would suffice if you only plan to use it to bypass menus and whatnot.

[Marco Giustini]

As Steve says, stay away from HDMI splitters!!!

The issue is with HDMI. When you plug an HDMI device, a "handshake" happens. The Sink (display device) starts talking to the source. It will advertise its capabilities (I can do 1080p, 720p, 24Hz, 60Hz etc) and the source will output something that the display can handle. This is done via EDID or Extended Display Identification Data. EDID is embedded in the display and shared to the source.

If you add a splitter... who is talking to the source? Who is doing the handshake? If it's your monitor, will the projector like the outcome of the handshake?

A professional solution is a proper matrix with EDID management. The idea is that you can ask the MATRIX to negotiate with the source and you can set your own EDID to make sure the negotiated format (picture and sound) is compatible with all the displays connected to the matrix.

As others have said, if you plug a monitor which is not compatible with 24p, the source might try to send 60Hz instead. That means that your projector is also now getting 60Hz, which is bad.

So no, never use HDMI splitters. If the customer wants a pro solution, a proper matrix is required (PROPER, not a big cheap splitter!) and it will require some understanding and configuration.

Alternatively, if the setup is simple, a blu ray player with 2 HDMI outputs might also work? There used to be one available, I do not know if it's still around though.

[Agnius Acus]

Now it makes sense.

What about SDI then?

Some professional Blu-ray players can output it natively, like ours JVC SR-HD2500, although it has long been discontinued.

[Marcel Birgelen]

SDI doesn't support HDCP. According to the security guidelines, only anything up to 720p may be provided if proper HDCP isn't guaranteed. According to the manual of your JVC SR-HD2500 it will not output protected content over non-HDCP links, so if you're able to play full HD BluRays over HD-SDI, the thing probably is running some bootleg firmware.

So, SDI is no viable option as SDI simply does not support HDCP.

As Steve says, stay away from HDMI splitters!!!

The issue is with HDMI. When you plug an HDMI device, a "handshake" happens. The Sink (display device) starts talking to the source. It will advertise its capabilities (I can do 1080p, 720p, 24Hz, 60Hz etc) and the source will output something that the display can handle. This is done via EDID or Extended Display Identification Data. EDID is embedded in the display and shared to the source.

If you add a splitter... who is talking to the source? Who is doing the handshake? If it's your monitor, will the projector like the outcome of the handshake?

A professional solution is a proper matrix with EDID management. The idea is that you can ask the MATRIX to negotiate with the source and you can set your own EDID to make sure the negotiated format (picture and sound) is compatible with all the displays connected to the matrix.

That's the nice thing about the HD-Fury route. If you don't need 16x16 or-so matrix switching, it will do all that for you for far less. It will even do scaling, audio extraction and some more gimmicks that can be very useful. Want to route the digital audio directly to your audio processor instead of trying to pass it through your projector or IMS first? No problem... Need to do some proper color conversion from 4K HDR10 to Rec.701? No problem. Heck, even HDR10 to DCI-P3 is a possibility if you're into some custom profiles.

About the only thing it won't do is framerate conversions. But your average Matrix Switcher won't do that either. Even though this HD-Fury stuff doesn't come in 19" rack-mountable boxes, it beats many "pro" solutions not just in price, but simply in functionality. Also, I wouldn't call a HD-Fury device a typical consumer product either.

Alternatively, if the setup is simple, a blu ray player with 2 HDMI outputs might also work? There used to be one available, I do not know if it's still around though.

The venerable Oppo Blu-Ray player almost everybody used did have dual-HDMI outputs. But that player only supports up to Full-HD, no 4K Blu-Rays. I don't know of a dual-HDMI output 4K player. If you do, please share.

[Ryan Gallagher]

SDI doesn't support HDCP. According to the security guidelines, only anything up to 720p may be provided if proper HDCP isn't guaranteed. According to the manual of your JVC SR-HD2500 it will not output protected content over non-HDCP links, so if you're able to play full HD BluRays over HD-SDI, the thing probably is running some bootleg firmware.

So, SDI is no viable option as SDI simply does not support HDCP.

SDI monitoring is an option, but you have to strip HDCP somewhere in the chain. I have some cheap 1080p converters that do it, but have not shopped for a 4K option yet myself. If anyone knows a part that does it for 4K with SDI outputs I'm keen. That and you'd probably still need the HDMI splitter anyway, unless you have SDI alt inputs on your projector.

[Marcel Birgelen]

SDI monitoring is an option, but you have to strip HDCP somewhere in the chain. I have some cheap 1080p converters that do it, but have not shopped for a 4K option yet myself. If anyone knows a part that does it for 4K with SDI outputs I'm keen. That and you'd probably still need the HDMI splitter anyway, unless you have SDI alt inputs on your projector.

The irony here is that you're now using some more professional infrastructure (SDI) with stuff that officially shouldn't exist, very professional indeed.

Yeah, those famous Chinese splitters... I'm keeping those in a special box, whenever I need to monitor me some HDMI... Unfortunately, they only work up to 1080@60p...