Sound Issue at Local IMAX

[Aron Toplitsky]

I'm experiencing an ongoing issue at the AMC Del Amo 18 in Torrance CA. Their IMAX theater sounds great, especially with the 12-channel upgrade, but there are times where it just doesn’t hit those sub frequencies. I know it's an issue with this theater because I've seen the same film at another IMAX. A few times I have complained, it gets fixed for a bit, and then it ends up back the same way. I have contacted quality control and usually get a response by the same person. I just don’t understand why something like this keeps happening. What could possibly be going on with their equipment? It's frustrating, I’m tired of complaining and just stopped seeing IMAX movies there. It's such a shame since it's so close to where I live.

Anyone have any suggestions? Anyone else I can contact about this?

[Marcel Birgelen]

Looks like your problem is one of those infinite loop kind of problems:

Start:
Patrons complain the sound is making their ears hurt or patrons of neighboring theaters are complaining they're getting 1.5 movie for the price of 1.
Complains keep piling up, local management gets involved: Someone gets tasked to turn the volume down.

Optional steps:
Someone from the staff will remind them that IMAX will probably not agree with the volume change.
Manager tells someone that IMAX isn't paying for those tickets themselves, so they should go do whatever is unpleasant for themselves.

Action phase:
Popcorn juggler turns down volume.

Counter-action phase:
People like you start filing complaints at IMAX's website.
Someone at IMAX actually checks their inbox, forwards compliant to NOC.
Frustrated NOC monkey remotes into system, only to see someone messed around with the presets. Fixes the issue.

Goto Start.


The most practical solution to this is to go let them go "F" themselves and simply don't go there anymore. Spend your money at a local theater that does it right. Other practical solutions would probably amount towards remedies that probably aren't legal...

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

I'm experiencing an ongoing issue at the AMC Del Amo 18 in Torrance CA.

That's all I needed to see... AMC is the worst of the worst theater chains that exists in this country, to give you an idea... they bought up a lot of Carmike sites. They also offer no real customer satisfaction at all. Take it the way it is or leave was what I was told about the deafening previews here at the Bellevue 12, which is only about a 5 year old location. The manager told me they have no control over the level of the previews, but they are able to control the movie sound level. Anyway, once the movie started it was also deafening, and we got up and left.

All I can say is thankfully there is another big chain nearby that used to be serviced by a Film-Tech member, and they actually do things correctly there, plus it is all 4K. There is also a fairly nice art house nearby, but the content they run is touch and go for me.

To end my comment, find another Imax that's run by a competent chain... even if you have to drive further.

[Aron Toplitsky]

Looks like your problem is one of those infinite loop kind of problems:

Start:
Patrons complain the sound is making their ears hurt or patrons of neighboring theaters are complaining they're getting 1.5 movie for the price of 1.
Complains keep piling up, local management gets involved: Someone gets tasked to turn the volume down.

Optional steps:
Someone from the staff will remind them that IMAX will probably not agree with the volume change.
Manager tells someone that IMAX isn't paying for those tickets themselves, so they should go do whatever is unpleasant for themselves.

Action phase:
Popcorn juggler turns down volume.

...

Marcel I think you are onto something when it comes to complaints from neighboring auditoriums, perhaps the bass is shaking the walls next door, but the volume is fine and has never been the issue. It's just the LFE that is lacking. Now that I think about it, this issue has been going on for years. And like I said, it gets fixed once I complain then the same issue returns months later. Is it possible management adjusts the bass only? Do they even have that capability?

[Scotty Wright]

Is it possible management adjusts the bass only? Do they even have that capability?

Yes it is possible, but complicated: it’s not just a knob. There’s a lot of tune-ability within the IMAX software but depends what level user they are on the system.

Maybe their calibration mics aren’t working or they’re just not keeping up with their calibrations, which are intended to be daily, but are skippable.

All IMAX’s have a twice a year service visit from a technician that does everything from standard diagnostics and system updates to part replacement and repair.

When I hear long-standing issues like this, it does lead me to think the issue is management or hardware.

[Marcel Birgelen]

Marcel I think you are onto something when it comes to complaints from neighboring auditoriums, perhaps the bass is shaking the walls next door, but the volume is fine and has never been the issue. It's just the LFE that is lacking. Now that I think about it, this issue has been going on for years. And like I said, it gets fixed once I complain then the same issue returns months later. Is it possible management adjusts the bass only? Do they even have that capability?

Like Scotty indicated, in most cases, there are techs capable of doing so, one way or the other. The way it works also depends on the type of sound system. The older 6.0 systems, both analog and digital systems were traditionally completely manually calibrated, as they presumed to have techs on-site during the entirety of the operation. Most modern digital IMAX systems require system logins to fiddle around with the EQ and it's usual that site-techs have access to those logins. I guess it was with one of their first Xenon digital systems they introduced their Audyssey-based NEXOS auto-EQ thing. I'm not sure if their 12-channel auto-eq is also called NEXOS. Usually, the Auto-EQ should also phone-home if there is something wrong with the hardware.

Keep in mind that IMAX does not have a dedicated LFE channel, it relies entirely on bass management for the lower end of the spectrum.

Also keep in mind that IMAX nowadays operates as a black box and considers everything they do a trade secret. So, the information provided here is provided for "educational purposes only".

[Marco Giustini]

it doesn't have a dedicated LFE channel? Digital soundtracks have it, what do they do with that extra track?

I suppose that if there are structural issues with that cinema, lowering the LFE becomes a requirement. If the cinema gets complaints from the adjacent rooms, there is really no other choice. Low Frequencies can travel further than high frequencies through structures and fixing sound leakage is never easy or cheap so the "only" solution is to lower the LFE channel.

Don't get me wrong: if that is the case, then someone made a mistake at design/construction level. But once the walls are built and the room is finished, fixing that is not a simple task.

[Marcel Birgelen]

it doesn't have a dedicated LFE channel? Digital soundtracks have it, what do they do with that extra track?

Keep in mind that IMAX has their own ideas when it comes down to sound, like them or not... This isn't your typical 5.1 or 7.1 install. Also, IMAX DCPs carry a different sound mix than their 5.1/7.1/IAB counterparts.

IMAX never had a dedicated LFE channel. If you want to use "low frequency effects", you need to mix them into one or more of the channels, which are all full-range.
Keep in mind that the LFE channel in modern audio formats is more or less a legacy from the analog audio days and a lack of dynamic range. In Atmos/IAB, where you can even have objects in the LFE range and many modern digital cinema audio setups also use bass management in some form or another. IMAX has always used magneto-optical analog sound and the emphasis of their traditional documentary-style IMAX movies has never been that much on the low end. When they changed to feature Hollywood presentations, they had to upgrade the sound systems in many of those more traditional locations, as their older speaker and amplifier systems simply weren't able to cope with those kind of soundtracks.

For soundtrack mixing, this doesn't really matter all that much anymore. Most movie soundtracks are just mixed once and then the soundtrack is rendered into the different delivery formats. Maybe, for some high-profile releases the IMAX soundtrack receives some extra TLC in post...

[Gordon McLeod]

Originally the 6 tracks on the 35mm mag dubber were Left, Centre, Right, Left Rear, Right Rear, and Top Though in the beginning TigerChild,North of Superior and Catch the Sun had ToddA0 Mixes (all were remixed to standard audio format. Many of the original Imax Theatres used cinema speakers of the day often A6 or A7 and the Sub recieved a sum of all channels since those speakers did not have the best bottom end just like in conventional theatres

[Marco Giustini]

sounds like the approach DTS took for their LFE channel which was mixed into the surrounds! Interesting.

[Gordon McLeod]

sounds like the approach DTS took for their LFE channel which was mixed into the surrounds! Interesting.

DTS was not much different in approach than Format 43