ICMP-x battery issue on a Barco DP2k-8s

[James Norman]

Hi all

As a new subscriber, Im happy to have found a forum with many knowledgeable and insightful members.

Ive tried to find answers to my dilemma from previous posts, some of which have helped shine some light, however i feel the need to ask directly about my issue.

I have been operating for several years a Barco DP2k-8s projector with an ICMP-X board installed for color grading in my post production studio. The dual SDI inputs
on the board are my workhorse interface.

Unfortunately the CR2477N battery on the ICMP board which holds the security data was not replaced in time. Although having replaced the battery, i now how
an unresponsive ICMP board.

The simplest solution is to ship the board back to Barco. However it turns out to be an extremely costly procedure. Not just repairs but shipping from my location
in Istanbul Turkey which involves expensive customs duties and alot of paperwork.

Before having to bite the bullet and go down that route, i was wondering if anyone knows of any possible methods to fix this issue?

Since i work with the dual SDI inputs, is there a way to bypass the DCP security needs? I think Christie projectors allow this.

Or could firmware upgrades kickstart the system?

Thanks
James

[Steve Guttag]

If you've lost the certificate due to battery failure...that's it. There is no field means I know to replace it. Only the manufacturer can load a certificate in (and it will be a new certificate, most likely, not the same one so all new keys would be needed).

[James Norman]

Thanks for your reply. Is there a way via the barco communicator to confirm the loss of the certificate?

[Dave Macaulay]

Best to get a full diagnostics package and email it to Barco support. There is a diags reading tool available from Barco but I've found it rarely useful.
I believe there's a way to get a server specific logs package through Commander but I'm not at one now and can't remember how. The projector diags package through Communicator is supposed to include the ICMP info: during the report generation process you should get a popup asking to confirm the ICMP address.
Communicator and/or Commander should have error messages if the server has lost its certs and can't play.

[James Norman]

Cheers, will do that.
Costingwise, I have been quoted from a Barco reseller, a repair cost of between 2k and 4k euros. I find this very steep, if what needs to fixed is solely a certification issue. Should i question this sum?

[Marcel Birgelen]

Unfortunately, it's a common price for just a repair, even though the repair is essentially nothing more than reloading the certificate onto the ICMP. A new ICMP is even more expensive. What's often more killing if you're running a business on those machines: It usually will take a few weeks before you can expect your repaired item to be shipped back to you.

I don't know the age of your machine, but it may be worthwhile to check if it can still be covered by an extended warranty. Barco has reduced their pricing for several of their extended warranty programs significantly over the last year or so. Given the price of some of the big-ticket items in those machines, I've found those extended warranties to be quite valuable, especially if you're not a multiplex with dozen of the same machines.

Regarding the import tariffs: Turkey's customs seems to be a complicated thing, I've experienced working with them about a year and a half ago, when I needed to get some equipment shipped to Istanbul. But even they should recognize something like a repair/RMA and on those items, you should not pay any import taxes.

[Leo Enticknap]

I'm not impressed that non-DCI alternative content inputs stop working when the certificate is lost. Admittedly this isn't a Barco uniqueness, but I know of no reason why this has to be the case.

[Carsten Kurz]

It's hardly possible that this is an ICMP-X - if it was, it would certainly still be under warranty. Even for the initial ICMP version, flat batteries would be a bit too early, though, within Barcos 5 year estimate if the unit in question has been sold very early.
Maybe something else is wrong? We bought our ICMP in early 2017. I should probably pay some attention to it's batteries soon...

Barco:
----
Phenomenon

The RTC battery of the ICMP will be depleted if kept on stock too long. An empty battery will cause loss of the internal key, will bring the ICMP in the ‘FIPS error state’ and as a consequence the ICMP board will become non-functional.

Solution

For ICMPs that are kept on stock, change the RTC battery every 5 years. The battery insertion date is labeled on its cover.

ICMPs that are installed in a projector will normally last longer; a timely warning will be generated on an active ICMP installed in the projector when replacement is due.
---

[Carsten Kurz]

Hmm. The ICMP has two battery sockets (one normally populated, one normally empty) to allow for a change over procedure. During the battery change, both sockets may be populated with a battery (one old, one new). The old one then is removed.
However, it seems to be normal to only have one socket populated during normal operation. Wouldn't it be better if both slots are always populated with batteries?

Indeed quite irritating to accept the alternative content inputs are dead with a dead cert battery. Suffering is learning...

[Leo Enticknap]

Those ICMPs often sit on the shelf for a long time before being delivered to a customer for installation. I installed one in January 2019, and noticed that the sticker on the battery cover indicated that it was last changed in April 2015. The firmware version that the unit shipped with indicated that it hadn't been touched since around then, too. I replaced that battery during the installation process.

While almost four years is extreme, I have frequently installed ICMPs with a battery replacement date 2-3 years earlier.

However, it seems to be normal to only have one socket populated during normal operation. Wouldn't it be better if both slots are always populated with batteries?

That is how GDC does it with the SX-3000, certainly. You replace one battery at a time (obviously), but both are used during regular operation.

A gotcha when swapping out the ICMP battery is to avoid getting confused between the old one and the new one. With both holders populated, they both look the same, and it only takes a momentary lapse of memory to forget which is which. For this reason, I put a Sharpie mark on the old (pre-installed) one before I do anything else.

[Marcel Birgelen]

It's probably not an ICMP-X model, as those are indeed very recent and should still be covered by warranty, then again, the "old" ICMP is close enough and the result of a lost certificate/key on both will be the same.

Regarding the issues with all those batteries on DCI gear that's essentially only needed to keep the private key alive inside the purposely volatile memory... Why not standardize on a design with a REPLACEABLE battery and an on-board super-cap to bridge the gap when there is no battery in place, even a low-end supercap should be able to power the necessary circuitry for a few days if not weeks. Also, put a beeper on there that produces some irritating sound every x seconds, when something is wrong. A simple battery-powered fire alarm manages to squeak loudly every minute or so. Yes, it costs some more of the battery power that's running out, but it actively seeks attention and tells the user something needs to be addressed.

On the other hand, those manufacturers use those vanishing certificates as a good excuse to make some extra money on replacement parts and support subscriptions on the back of the exhibition industry, so expect new traps to open up along the way...

[Frank Cox]

I wonder if the manufacturers will be getting even more avaricious if this plague ends up with less operating theatres.

The cost of operating digital equipment far exceeds the cost to operate film equipment already....

[Steve Guttag]

I think both designs are foolish (GDC and ICMP. Use a super-cap and battery. When the voltage drops to the point you are on the super-cap (whatever the v-gamma is of the diode that separates the two), change the battery. The super cap is soldered in so no worry of low-current contacts with a battery. GDC's dual battery method hasn't shown that it lasts any length of time but it does help prevent a single point of failure due to "noisy" contacts with low current.

As for which battery. I ALWAYS write in sharpie the date I changed the battery right on the battery.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

ICP's also have a super capacitor for while you are changing the clock battery. I had one that apparently had a bad capacitor(according to NEC) because it was messed up and throwing all sorts of errors after changing the battey...

[Marcel Birgelen]

I think both designs are foolish (GDC and ICMP. Use a super-cap and battery. When the voltage drops to the point you are on the super-cap (whatever the v-gamma is of the diode that separates the two), change the battery. The super cap is soldered in so no worry of low-current contacts with a battery. GDC's dual battery method hasn't shown that it lasts any length of time but it does help prevent a single point of failure due to "noisy" contacts with low current.

As for which battery. I ALWAYS write in sharpie the date I changed the battery right on the battery.

I think, if done correctly, the supercap solution should be superior (still far from perfect), simply because it solves some problems of the dual battery setup:
- A high quality supercap will outlast a battery and most likely the useful life of the equipment.
- A soldered-in battery is a potential time-bomb soldered to your board. It eventually needs replacement.
- A dual-battery solution with replaceable batteries has proven to be unstable. Not only do you risk people pulling both batteries at the same time, but bad contacts amplified by problems due to low current flow have proven to be flaky.

There is another risk associated with volatile memory and that's the influence of cosmic rays. Cosmic rays have proven to "bit flip" memory and cause in-memory data corruption. In some cases even exceeding the capabilities of simple error correction like ECC. So, cosmic rays are also a serious danger for the stuff saved into those volatile-memory-data-traps we use for our DCI equipment, even if they do employ error-correction. A simple EEPROM though, is completely unaffected by any cosmic rays that are still compatible with human life on Earth.

Eventually, the ultimate solution should be to do away with volatile memory entirely. I'm not sure if the DCI specs allow for it, I might need to check up on it, but there are quite a few alternatives now, that have proven to be as secure as it gets. If even the FBI and CIA in their combined efforts can't get to the secure storage of the latest generations of mobile phones, I'll guess this should be good enough for DCI projectors too.