Embedded credit offsets

[Barry Floyd]

Just got back from the drive-in convention and while I was down there I learned that my GDC SR-1000's can extract the embedded credit offsets from feature files.

I went down to my theater today and tried it. It works, but I'm not sure what the embedded markers stand for.

I think the FFEC is "First frame of end credits".

Is there a place online somewhere that explains what these embedded markers mean. I looked at the DCI Naming Convention site, but didn't find any information.

[Ioannis Syrogiannis]

You can get a general idea on the "SMPTE RDD 52" document that is available online.
The list has a number of acronyms, the list of who I usually find on the markers one can make for SMPTE DCPs, when working on DCP-o-matic.
See here on the help pages of it: https://www.dcpomatic.com/manual/htm...ml#fig-markers
Also the user BenKingIV describes them here: https://www.dcpomatic.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=930

[James Gardiner]

FFEC - First Frame End Credits - is when the credits start, For example you may have some elaborate end credit sequence... or when they flash up major credit names like main actors and director.
FFMC - First Frame MOVING Credits - i.e. When the main roll up from the bottom credits start.

The issue here is, at what point do you as a cinema operator want to bring up the lights, and for some films FFMC is fine, while others not so much.

[Mike Blakesley]

I don’t always get a chance to pre-screen a movie, so I always put a lights-mid cue at the FFEC, but about two or three seconds later. That way the lights don’t come up instantaneously when the credits begin. Then I put a second cue at the FFMC marker. That way if there is a cool pre-crawl sequence I can just delete the first cue.

[Barry Floyd]

The studio supplied "Ingest Letters" always list a "credits" time, and a "crawl" time. At our place, being a Drive-In that runs double features, I have the "field lights" set to come on at the "crawl" time (FFMC). However, I also have a cue marker set at 5 minutes before the crawl. That "5 minutes before" cue signals an "employee alert chime tone" up at the main concessions line to warn my employees they have 5 minutes to make sure the cash drawers have change, pretzels are made, restrooms are cleaned up, ice is filled, etc. Each screen (we only have 2) has a different tone.

I'm assuming the embedded markers would translate to "credits" (FFEC), and "crawl" would be FFMC.

[Ryan Gallagher]

Being a classics/rep and festival house (and manual)... I would find the embed markers, if any, to be pretty un-trustworthy... or not all that useful. (So many of our classic films have just a "The End" card or minimal end credits cards, and all the marker times end up being the same despite not always having all of them published consistently). Previewing is really the only way to be 100% on how you would like the sequence to behave. We also tend to have several different "modes" of finishing a film depending on the film era, credits content, presentation context, main drape or no, etc.

Examples:
"House half" at crawl or perhaps during end title cards (summer film series or classics), house full at end of projection or curtain close.

"House Glow/Credits" at end credits, to half at crawl (summer films with more extensive end credits before crawl, summer film audience leave pretty quick and we have a dangerous balcony in the dark)

"House Glow/Credits" at crawl all the way through until the conclusion of any images/non-text or bonus content (More dressed up credits/crawl, or we are in roadshow mode w/curtain).

"House Out" until crawl then "glow/credits" (festival mode with no Q&A)

"House Out" until bitter end (at request by creatives or festival)

"House Out" until some unknown early mid-credits point where we fade audio and transition to Q&A, perhaps with crawl behind panel, perhaps direct to Q&A.

Other variations are possible when we are intentionally using the main drape and it's warmers at the conclusion of a film too. There are no published curtain offsets on DCPs. ;-) If I want that "perfect" curtain timing definitely have to preview the end sequence, and all venue curtains move at different speeds.

But I also have the modern luxury of standing in a booth portal with the curtain and lighting controls next to me! If I had automation for such things, I'd probably set my own cue times and not rely on published, but they do publish em for a reason (to attempt to permit preview-less human-less automation).

[Ryan Gallagher]

I don’t always get a chance to pre-screen a movie, so I always put a lights-mid cue at the FFEC, but about two or three seconds later. That way the lights don’t come up instantaneously when the credits begin.

Agree, if i've elected, or am being asked to bring up any lighting directly at the start of end credits (FFEC), I always give it a breath between the end of picture and the first hint of houselights... at least one title card or more for some separation/applause.

However, I also have a cue marker set at 5 minutes before the crawl. That "5 minutes before" cue signals an "employee alert chime tone" up at the main concessions line to warn my employees they have 5 minutes

Excellent use of automation! I should look into doing something similar for my FOH peeps in festival or marathon mode. I'm not as consistent about warning them on radio as I could be, but they also have the full schedules and are pretty good without my help.

[Ryan Gallagher]

Ioannis shared equivalent links, but images are worth 1000 words. Here is the compliment of SMTPE markers DCPoMatic let's you insert. (obviously several correspond to ones studios/distributors also publish in distribution letter/email form, and also appear on DCP drive labels if you still get physical drives).

The provided lablels/letters start to fall kinda short in this department when the drive sent is a compilation of several films. Also I find that Deluxe does not always send the letters for many things in their back catalogs.

Markers.png

[Shibu Paul]

"The credit details are visible on the Qube Wire content provider page under the Wiretap section."

[Ryan Gallagher]

"The credit details are visible on the Qube Wire content provider page under the Wiretap section."

Would be amazing to know ahead if they include the LFMC ahead of time, for those of us curtain having folks. Though practice might vary... include the trailing studio cards or not etc?

But if included, it seems no one bothers to clearly publish the other markers.
Honestly I haven't looked to see if my Doremi can view markers available before a key opens. Something to try.

[Shibu Paul]

Honestly I haven't looked to see if my Doremi can view markers available before a key opens. Something to try.

Yes, it's visible in Doremi and IMS3000 under the insert of intermission options.

[Frank Cox]

Here are my notes regarding dcp bookmarks. I don't remember where I found it originally.

Label Description
FFOC First Frame of Content. First displayable frame of a composition. Also commonly referred to as First Frame Of Action or FFOA.
LFOC Last Frame of Content. Last displayable frame of a composition. Also commonly referred to as Last Frame Of Action or LFOA.
FFTC First Frame of Title Credits. First displayable frame of content that contains any intensity of the Title Credits (a non zero alpha value), which appear at the beginning of a feature.
LFTC Last Frame of Title Credits. Last displayable frame of content that contains any intensity of the Title Credits (a non zero alpha value), which appear at the beginning of a feature.
FFOI First Frame of Intermission.
LFOI Last Frame of Intermission.
FFEC First Frame of End Credits. First displayable frame of content that contains any intensity of the End Credits (a non zero alpha value), which appear at the end of a feature.
LFEC Last Frame of End Credits. Last displayable frame of content that contains any intensity of the End Credits (a non zero alpha value), which appear at the end of a feature.
FFOB First Frame of Ratings Band. First displayable frame of content of the Rating Band, which is usually a slate at the beginning of a feature.
LFOB Last Frame of Ratings Band. Last displayable frame of content of the Rating Band, which is usually a slate at the beginning of a feature.
FFMC First displayable frame of content that contains any intensity of moving, rolling or scrolling credits (a non-zero alpha value), which appear at the end of the feature.
LFMC Last displayable frame of content that contains any intensity of moving, rolling or scrolling credits (a non-zero alpha value), which appear at the end of the feature.

[Mike Blakesley]

I wish they would put a "LFOB" marker on trailers. I wouldn't mind cutting those off since often they don't have the rating anyway.