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I can't give you an answer for the ICMP-X specifically, but I've noticed that a lot of Barco parts consisting primarily of printed circuit boards state on the box that they were made in Romania.
AFAIK, Canada hasn't imposed any tariffs on the EU or anywhere else (that didn't exist before the events of this week, at any rate), meaning that unless any Barco components are manufactured in the US, you shouldn't be affected by this as far as buying Barco stuff is concerned.
One thing I'm confused about, and haven't seen any clear answer for, is how the tariffs are calculated in terms of final assembly vs. source parts. For example, if a Barco projector is assembled in, and shipped to the US from, Kortrijk, but the light source was imported to Belgium from Appotronics in China, do we consider that projector to be entirely an EU import and only whack 10% on it, or do we levy 125% (for China), on, say, 30% of its declared value? If the latter, how do US Customs know what math they need to be doing?
One thing I'm confused about, and haven't seen any clear answer for, is how the tariffs are calculated in terms of final assembly vs. source parts. For example, if a Barco projector is assembled in, and shipped to the US from, Kortrijk, but the light source was imported to Belgium from Appotronics in China, do we consider that projector to be entirely an EU import and only whack 10% on it, or do we levy 125% (for China), on, say, 30% of its declared value? If the latter, how do US Customs know what math they need to be doing?
Yeah for sure.
After all the initial payer of the tariff is the importing entity... it doesn't even matter if a multi-national is shipping to itself, and it is not part of a sale yet, that is still an import from what I understand.
But at the end of the day, expect the customer to pay the sum total difference that ALL tariffs caused (be it on assembled whole or parts). There won't be a predictable extra cost simply based on country of origin, because of all those other layers in the manufacturing parts ecosystem.
Equally even if all the tariffs went away after 6 months, I would not expect prices to necessarily come down immediately, if they ever get back to where they were. Lots of reasons, some of them a natural consequence, or time-lag relative to company costs, some will just be greed (a pandemic lesson we all learned).
Understood. To put my question more clearly, does that Appotronics laser unit that was exported from China to Belgium cease to be of Chinese origin (for tariff purposes) once it's been placed inside the projector in Belgium, which is then exported to the USA? Or is there some mechanism whereby Barco has to declare to the US authorities what proportion of the parts in that projector come from where, and what Barco paid for them, and this data is then used to figure out the tariff? If the latter, this is going to generate a staggering amount of bureaucracy, regardless of all the other political and economic issues involved.
Understood. To put my question more clearly, does that Appotronics laser unit that was exported from China to Belgium cease to be of Chinese origin (for tariff purposes) once it's been placed inside the projector in Belgium, which is then exported to the USA? Or is there some mechanism whereby Barco has to declare to the US authorities what proportion of the parts in that projector come from where, and what Barco paid for them, and this data is then used to figure out the tariff? If the latter, this is going to generate a staggering amount of bureaucracy, regardless of all the other political and economic issues involved.
I honestly don't know, but I think in that specific example... yes the laser engine ceases to be an import. Unless perhaps govs are able to argue anything that company also sells separately counts and has to be declared, making the final product really an assembly of individual items. But yeah that seems like an insurmountable amount of paperwork.
I'm sure the rules vary country to country, but at least I'm seeing some references to products needing to be "substantially transformed" as the only way to avoid the trace back to the origin country and any tariffs that would have applied due to it. If a laser or light engine exists as a product unto itself I'm not sure one can make such a claim?
Well, I read about Apple iPhones, and what they say is that fully assembled iPhones from China get the full tariff, as well as parts from China that would be needed to assemble an iPhone in the US. Just that the total cost of the fully assembled iPhone is higher than the parts, and so the assembled iPhone becomes much more expensive than the cost increase from the tariffed parts.
Well, I read about Apple iPhones, and what they say is that fully assembled iPhones from China get the full tariff, as well as parts from China that would be needed to assemble an iPhone in the US. Just that the total cost of the fully assembled iPhone is higher than the parts, and so the assembled iPhone becomes much more expensive than the cost increase from the tariffed parts.
Yeah, then the question becomes is a US assembled one discounted enough relative to Apple’s tariff burdens plus whatever they can reasonably force the customer to shoulder. Compared cost of US labor to do the assembly, the start up costs of the change, and critically, are tariffs a known stable factor for long enough for Apple to move any factories (or build new ones). (Hypothetically of course)
Even if all this was a good idea to promote US industry stability seems to be the one thing this Admin does not grok.
I think at least with phones we are stuck with the higher assembled tariff cost being passed along. It may not be full retail though, maybe Apple only has to declare their value, and not the end value? As they are not a retail customer of their own product?
I am picking this BARCO ICMP in Detroit on Monday or Tuesday...... Canadian customs will look at the shipping box and / or ICMP..... if it says MADE IN USA they WILL ADD 25%. IF the box says Made in Belgium then it is "free of tariffs." Usually no "debates" are allowed. If the part was installed in a projector BUILT IN THE USA then they will tariff it @ 25%. The other standard Canadian taxes apply called HST aka a so-called added tax of 13%
Along these lines I am not raising my prices and am personally eating these BS on-again off-again tariffs imposed by the idiot that we somehow put back in power. So if that kills my company, then so be it. Prices go up and never come down. Why should my international friends be penalized because we are? All of this instability (not to mention lack of trust) is undermining everything. My purchasing and R&D have all come to a standstill. I have no clue how a more complicated electronics assembly can be managed through all of this insanity.
Tough one Allan.
I am 99.9% certain the ICMP is not made in the USA, I don't think any Barco part is except maybe some hardware? Is any consumer product (ie not aviation or military) made in the USA now? The whole situation is FUBAR.
Is there any cinema projector made in the USA? Maybe Dolby servers are but I kinda doubt that it's 100%.
I have some empty (well, not empty, but not containing what they originally did now) Barco and Dolby boxes in the garage.
IMS3000 - made in Malaysia
Barco Series 4 CCB - made in Hungary
Barco Series 2 backplane - made in Romania
If Allan's ICMP was made in Eastern Europe somewhere, I'm guessing that he'll be OK, as long as it's in its original packaging and states as such. My suggestion would be to check with the seller if it is in its original box, if that box states the country of manufacture, and if so, what that is. If there is no evidence of the country of manufacture, maybe contact Barco and ask them to provide an email, or something to show Canadian customs, stating where it was made?
Originally posted by Dave Macaulay
Is there any cinema projector made in the USA?
We were discussing this at Cinemacon, and the concensus seemed to be no: Barco does some final assembly in China and some in Belgium; I couldn't get a definitive answer for Christie; and SharpNEC manufactures entirely in Japan. If that's correct, then in the short term at least, SharpNEC now has a significant advantage in the US market (10% versus 125%) if Barco and Christie do a significant proportion of their final assembly in China.
FYI:
Yesterday, I received an e-mail (and perhaps some of you did too) from a major screen
manufacturer, located "north of the USA" that they had a limited number of screens
already stocked in a warehouse in New Jersey,and that if you acted quickly, you
could get a new screen installed in time for "Mission Impossible 8", and avoid the
import tariffs, since the screens were already "here" in the US.
(I'm paraphrasing the e-mail a bit but that's basically what it said)
Barco did email back with a statement on COUNTRY OF ORIGIN..... ICMP X are built in ROMANIA. POWER SUPPLIES in TUNSIA.... I had to look those countries up on a map. So the result is Tariff FREE to Canada... except for HST (so-called value added tax). I will attach that letter to the CRA (Canada Revenue Agency) and all parties with be happy.
Gord.... I didn't hire a CUSTOMS BROKER. I usually do the "B3" Import myself and now am learning about the exciting new "CARM Client Portal" system with CRA. Oh joy.
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