Q-SYS Corner

[Elia Orselli]

Probably it's more a question for the FB Q-Sys programming Super Group, but I'm working at a plugin to control Doremi servers using KVL protocol (because I wouldn't able to work with SOAP protocol to expand functionalities of the existing plugin, and because with KVL API it's possible to control every Dolby/Doremi even not upgradable to SOAP API).
Now I'm able to trigger simple commands (like play, pause, eject, shutdown, reboot) and I'm able to get and store SPLs UUIDs and load an SPL for playback, but only using UUID. I've been able to ask SPL readable name and to store it in a combo box, but I'm stuck at this point.
Now it would be important to be able to ask the server for all available SPL names and use those for selection (while still sending UUIDs to load SPLs), but that exceeds my very limited LUA ability...

Test_kvl_ims.zip

[Steve Guttag]

Elia,

First...NICE JOB thus far! Unfortunately, my LUA skills are next to non-existent. I have done the Control 101 class and got the certificate but I'm decidedly in the training wheel department using the Block Controller for my creations, thus far.

On my own Dolby/Doremi creation, I'm not currently (but getting close to) looking for SPLs. That feature is behind when I'll put up running time/elapsed time/time remaining. I opted to go for the basic transport controls/indicators, Audio format (for ATMOS rooms or those using the IMS3000's internal sound processor), as well as the fader control itself and to be able to control the input between DCP, HDMI and SDI.

Chase Taylor seems to have concentrated on macro execution as well as the particulars of content FTP progress and show status.

Your attempt (thus far, at least...one would think with a version 0.0.0. that you have bigger plans), seems to mostly be concentrating on SPL selection. I think it is great that you've got it reading SPL names and UUID, there is value in that alone (and Chase's one does that as well). For setting up a Bel-are sort of system, SPL selection will be a very desirable feature. That, fortunately, is not something that I really have to cater to, at the moment. My screening room guys are going to have the Web UI open anyway for ingesting, show creation and so forth so that is why I've concentrated on more of a status a fast control since that would apply to multiplex users as well as screening room. Furthermore, the IMS3000's Web UI is miserable about tell you just what format you are running!

I should point out in my "CP65 buttons" below, I was overly optimistic in being able to determine which input is running. DCP is easy and there are numerous means to know that one is not only running but is the format coming off the server...I don't have a proof-positive way to know if HDMI or SDI are the current source. The buttons change the LED since pressing those buttons will change the input...even if a show is running but only DCP can "steal" the LED back once a show starts up again. If you were to, say going via the web UI and set up a Quick Control for switching them ( or a macro), my interface would be oblivious to that aside from knowing it wasn't DCP anymore. I haven't given up hope...just time. I was unable to test SDI since I didn't have a mini-BNC adapter on me plus I don't think I have an SDI source with audio where I've been testing...just a video generator.

So, back to your question...Michael Goodyear is a good resource over at FB's Programming Super Group though I don't know how generous he will be since this is sort of where his bread is buttered, so to speak. At least we know that he has already started talking with Doremi/Dolby stuff however I think he primarily, if not exclusively, used WSDL/SOAP. If the Web UI can do something, in theory so can what is doing. Joe Peavy may be of some help too. He is no longer with QSC and last I heard he was looking to teach LUA scripting...which again, may or may not cause him to be reserved on what knowledge he imparts. Joe's experience at QSC is going to help him, I'm sure, know just what QSYS' implementation can do. You can also reach out to the (former) cinema guys at QSC. Someone like Jay Wyatt may be able to assist/guide you.







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[Elia Orselli]

Thanks for the tips! I've already had contact with Michael Goodyear because I helped him test his plugin on the IMS3000 when he posted it on FB. I wrote to him again via facebook, but he probably didn't see the message. I will try again and try to contact the other people you recommend.
In my ideas I would like to build a complete plugin at least for projection operations: spl selection, macro execution... But I'd like to go further to have a complete tool (even if for now I assume that ingest and SPL creation are easily done using the projection booth PC).

About DCP/HDMI/SD, I would use live content SPLs, as indicated in IMS3000 user manual, instead of using device controller. In this way it would be easy to know what's the source working.

[Steve Guttag]

Yeah...no...I'm non-plussed by ever having to run an SPL to change an input. It is something I really dislike on the GDC method of using their HDMI port (or SDI). Once I get an SDI source (and the time to check it), it may give me clues that it is active. Once I know 2 out of 3, I effectively know the 3rd. It isn't too high a priority for me since the use case of problem would be VERY low where it could indicate the wrong input selected. In fact, if someone were to put in a show that switched to HDMI when done, that would be a case where it could come up and for that, for now, I would just have to add to the Macro that causes the input switch to also update Q-SYS.

Remember too...these guys not only have jobs and could be quite busy...people like Michael live over in the Australia area (I can't remember if he is AUS or NZ)...so time wise...they are so far ahead of the west I think it is something like June over there.

[Steve Guttag]

QSC has been busy cookin' in Asset manager this month. Among other things, they have added a Barco S1/S2 plugin.

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It is configurable between S1 and S2 (different port numbers) and within S2, there is an DP2K-10S mode where the "sleep" function is available. One can also remove the lamp info of you are using a laser light source. I can confirm that it "works" on an S4 projector using the DP2K-10S mode (since S4 can handle "sleep" functions) but since the S4 does not go beyond 9 presets, it will not find/list all of the Macros you may have created or allow you to manually type them in. Hopefully, an S4 version will become available soon.

I also happened to see that they now have a Keyboard Plugin available for those that have UCIs that might need some data entry. It is probably worth checking out to see what other plugins have been added or updated.

[Leo Enticknap]

If it works on the SP4K (presumably with legacy mode enabled), that will be a big help.

[Steve Guttag]

It does (and yes, legacy mode)...however just up to the 9 preset names. It is "sniffing" for macros assigned to presets rather than macros available. What would be nice is to have a Macro's tab and then be able to assign Macros to QSYS presets. Let it sniff out all of the Macros and build a drop-down list so one could assign those to a button that could move to a UCI.

[Steve Guttag]

This is what the plugin looks like talking with an S4 (SP4K-15C). Up to 9 presets, it correctly reads the preset names and locations. I can also confirm that the status also works...when a yellow error was showing, the plugin correctly showed that 1 yellow error was active...the specific details were not revealed but that could be that Barco doesn't pass that information:


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I think if they just add a "Macro" tab and let it find all of the Macros and then let us have QSYS preset locations where via a drop-down box we could assign (and also allow typing in the macro, if you know the name) a Macro to a button that could be added to the UCI. As servers and projectors have moved almost entirely to web based UIs...having an all encompassing UCI on a touchpanel or even a common web page could be quite handy. Furthermore, with Q-SYS one could create phone specific UCIs that one can make more phone-friendly, given the space constraints.

[Tia Marklund]

Hi all!
This might be a bit off topic. Even though there is a Core 100c involved I am pretty shure that it is not related to the problem. We have a three-plex using IMS3000 and are having problems sending cues to the dimmer. We have no problem manually trigger the cues in "macro execution" in the IMS, and no problem trigger the cues through a control component in the Core, BUT when adding cues in a playlist they suddenly start to "often work". We have tried sending the cues directly to the dimmer using tcp, but also via the Core through named controls AND through snaps in the Jnior. But always with same result - it often works. We have added the wait command and also separated the cues by several seconds. We are almost out of ideas now, but as we see it the problem lies in the IMS (or the dimmer, which is networked controlled Helvar). A wierd thing is that one auditorium is working fine with an identical setup. Any ideas?

[Steve Guttag]

Personally, I've found that the Doremi/Dolby IMS Ethernet to be "weak" in how it handles Ethernet commands. The whole \w is an admission of guilt. I've done a Wireshark session and the Doremi/IMS can end its communication ungracefully with a "RST" I've been known to "double-fire" commands on the Doremi type servers (same command separated by 1-second. If the thing you are doing can tolerate getting the same command twice, most of the time.

With Q-SYS...always remember that the core closes a connection that hasn't been active for at least 60-seconds. There is no good way to make a "keep alive" on the IMS servers though you probably could on the JNIOR have a Macro that just fires an SG command every 50-seconds at the CORE and then use the JNIOR as a go-between to your other devices. I don't use the JNIOR as I settled on the eCNA automations a long time ago and I do normally let the eCNA handle all external communication so the IMS is JUST talking with the eCNA and the CORE, directly, for volume cues. Volume cues can be doubled up though adding \w commands seems sufficient for reliable IMS/CORE communication.

I agree though, the IMS is likely contributing, if not causing the unreliable Ethernet. Have you opened a ticket with Dolby? The more of us that complain, the more likely that they will do something rather than writing off the odd complaint given 10,000s of them are in the field without people complaining.

[Tia Marklund]

Thanks, Steve!
Yes, I made a ticket to Dolby as well! Would be nice with a "maintain connection" as with an ICMP, for example.

[Magnus Eriksson]

About this 3-plex mentioned above (I´m working on the same case):
This was a Dolby DSS site before switching to IMS3000, and the DSS network stucture with Auditorium and Theatre networks was inherited. Each auditorium has a local network (Auditorium) for control, and all 3 auditoriums are interconnected over another network (Theatre), mostly for content transfer.
Projector, sound processor and IMS eth0 are on the auditorium network, and there has been no reports of those cues failing. Core, dimmer and 3 Jniors are on the Theatre network (eth 1 on IMS), and those cues are giving us headache.
There should be no difference if a network command leaves the IMS through eth0 or eth1 as long as all devices are properly configured? Content transfers on the Theatre network does not affect this (mis)behavior.
/M.E.

[Steve Guttag]

In case some are not aware, QSC has been active during 2020 (and into 2021) with various blogs and videos/webinars. Some of which pertain to QSYS directly. Mark Mayfield just posted a blog on the Barco Plugin:

https://blogs.qsc.com/cinema/2021/04...or-with-q-sys/

There are a lot of other good blogs/webinars on there with great info on the various speakers and amps, particularly the DPA-Q (and CX-Q) and how to properly size them in a QSYS system since their power response is not like trying to size a conventional linear amplifier.

[EDIT]:

Update on the Barco plugin with an S4 projector. While it works as mentioned above, its communication does NOT survive a projector power cycle (including going into sleep and back). While the connection status will say "OK" it isn't really updating status. A work around is to reveal the "disable" pin and then toggle that to force it to close the socket and reopen and poll for status again. There are numerous ways to do this in an automatic fashion, depending on how one is waking up the projector. I normally use eCNA automations for such things so I was planning on part of the Day Start Macro to also send the command to QSYS to toggle that pin after a delay so to allow the projector time to "wake up."

[Leo Enticknap]

Also, if there is a power outage, the projector will wake up in eco mode. As there is no such thing on earlier projectors ("eco mode" was selected with the rocker switch on the back), if you're using the legacy API, there is no way to wake it up via automation. This one just hit me at a place in which a DP4K-23B was replaced with an SP4K-27BHC, and the macros on the latter all given the same names in order to avoid having to do any reprogramming of the Crestron. It all worked beautifully, until there was a power outage one night that was long enough to drain the UPS battery. When the power was back and the system woke up, the projector was in eco mode, and the only way to get the card cage back on was to manually go in via Teamviewer and fire it up using the web UI. I've recommended that the integrator to whom we were subcontracted to install the projector gets their Crestron programmer back and implements the new API, including a wake-up command whenever the system is booted up; whether they decide that it's worth the expense to cover a problem that'll happen once or twice a year if that, I don't know.

[Steve Guttag]

See...I always configure the "Off Mode" (GPI 3) on the S4 projectors. This not only allows for waking up from sleep but also for putting the projector in to a proper off and to power cycle, if need be. I use the eCNA automations so relays are plentiful and the eCNA handles wakeup/shutdowns for most everything. The user has the option of doing a full shutdown (off-mode) or sleep.

Do you have the projector's "Light Recovery Mode" set (in Configuration >Light Output>Mode.

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