NEC NC800C not turning off issue?

[Mike Matusek]

So I have a NEC NC800C we bought back in 2007. It has worked great for 15 years as our DI Theater's color grading projector. I've always had an issue where the projector won't turn on consistently from the remote control, software app, or the on button on the physical projector. I have to flip the breaker off and on, and then it will respond and turn on. This hasn't been an issue when it's off, but recently this has been happening while the projector/lamp is on, and I can't turn it off. Killing the power via flipping the circuit breaker off is the only way to turn it off. It seems that after being on for more than 15 minutes or so it will enter this state and I'm worried that if I keep doing this it will be permanently damaged. When it won't turn off, the lamp is on and it displays images and works just fine, it just won't turn off from the remote, app, or physical button. It definitely drops off the network when it gets into this state. If I ping it in a terminal it will ping for awhile then eventually stop. I thought it might be a network issue but that wouldn't explain the power button on the projector itself not working as well.

We don't use the projector as often as we used to, as we usually grade off an OLED for commercial clients. For feature clients we still use the projector. It was barely used during Covid the last 2 years and my last long form project I finished recently is where I noticed this issue. NEC supoort says it's basically a 'dead product' and no parts are available anymore considering the age. Just curious if anyone has had this issue and has a solution that didn't involve replacing a card, as that's not an option for us at this point. I'm a colorist and not an engineer, so not sure how to precede. Thanks in advance for any comments.

[Leo Enticknap]

Is DCC totally unresponsive, or will it just not let you put the projector into standby? Will it let you change macro/preset, for example? Will it let you turn the lamp off, while keeping the card cage powered up? Killing the lamp, waiting 10 minutes or so for it to cool, and then off at the breaker would at least be less dangerous than popping the breaker with the lamp on.

Is the projector being commanded via RS232, e.g. through an automation device? I have occasionally experienced Series 2 NECs in which DCC is unresponsive until I disconnect the RS232, but can't recall coming across this in a Series 1 machine.

[Mike Matusek]

Is DCC totally unresponsive, or will it just not let you put the projector into standby? Will it let you change macro/preset, for example? Will it let you turn the lamp off, while keeping the card cage powered up? Killing the lamp, waiting 10 minutes or so for it to cool, and then off at the breaker would at least be less dangerous than popping the breaker with the lamp on.

Is the projector being commanded via RS232, e.g. through an automation device? I have occasionally experienced Series 2 NECs in which DCC is unresponsive until I disconnect the RS232, but can't recall coming across this in a Series 1 machine.

Thanks Leo. It is totally unresponsive, so I can't get into any of those settings. We only have an ethernet cable connected to get it onto our house network, which we then control from the DCC app on a Windows 10 Pro computer. Since this is used only for color grading, the only other connection is a SDI cable that feeds the video signal from my Baselight grading system. I assume the RS232 (9-pin?) is for a D-Cinema server?

I typically turn the projector on with the remote (connected with the cable). When it won't power off/on, the DCC will not connect and I get a network error from the DCC software that it can't find the IP of the projector. I've tried disconnecting the remote and ethernet, and turning it on with just the on/off on the projector itself, to try and remove the network as an issue, but it still ends up in this state and won't turn off.

As a test I've turned the breaker on, but left the lamp off. I then ping it from a Mac terminal and see how long the connection lasts. It will eventually lose network connection which tells me it needs another power cycle to get control back. Might last 20-30 minutes.

Curious if there is a board I could try reseating? I put black up on the screen before killing the power. I'm sure that doesn't make it any less bad to kill the power with the lamp on, but it makes me feel a little less awful...

[Marco Giustini]

I kind of remembering experiencing a similar issue but I also do remember I was instructed not to touch the projector as there were NO spares available. So it was better to keep it running like that than killing it entirely.

Re-seating things is always a good starting point but, again, with no support and no spares it's a bit dangerous.

So you're saying the projector won't turn off even when you operate it from the on/off button on the projector?

[Leo Enticknap]

I assume the RS232 (9-pin?) is for a D-Cinema server?

It can be. It is an alternative method to Ethernet for sending command controls, and is typically used by an automation/integration system, e.g. Crestron, AMX, or Q-Sys. As noted above, I have occasionally encountered installations with Series 2 NECs that use the RS232 connection, whereby I have to physically disconnect it in order for DCC over IP to work.

Annoyingly, the DCC app itself can't use RS232 as its communication method (its Barco equivalent can), so if the problem is in the network card in the projector, you can't use that as an alternative. That having been said, you could investigate hooking it up (if the computer you use to drive the projector doesn't have an onboard RS232/DB9 interface, you'll need a USB to RS232 serial adapter), downloading the API from NEC, and then simply sending it the lamp off and power off commands manually, using an app such as PuTTY or Hype!Terminal, if IP becomes unresponsive.

If the projector is not answering a ping at times when DCC is unresponsive, a bad LAN card is my guess at the culprit.

[Marco Giustini]

Just to make sure you have ruled out your network or computer. Is the Windows 10 computer directly connected to the projector? Can you try plugging a laptop directly in the projector and testing with that setup? I would also use a different ethernet cable just in case.

[Mike Matusek]

Just to make sure you have ruled out your network or computer. Is the Windows 10 computer directly connected to the projector? Can you try plugging a laptop directly in the projector and testing with that setup? I would also use a different ethernet cable just in case.

Thanks Marco. So when I removed the remote and ethernet connection, and just powered on with the button on the unit itself, it still eventually is not able to be turned off with the same button. If I manage to turn it off before it enters the disabled state, then it will turn off as normal.

It is odd that when I can't shut it off though, it still works fine. Definitely a frustrating problem to have, as it's pretty much as good as new except this problem.

The Windows 10 computer is connected via our house switch. We do have an old Windows laptop with the DCC app installed. I'll give that a try. Instead of waiting for it to enter the disabled state with the lamp on, I will try and turn it on from a direct ethernet connected laptop after I see the ping stop in a terminal. Thanks for that idea.

[Mike Matusek]

If the projector is not answering a ping at times when DCC is unresponsive, a bad LAN card is my guess at the culprit.

Thanks again Leo. I'm not familiar with NEC API? Is that specific software for the NC800C, or a more general piece of software? Thanks for this idea. Definitely worth trying. I had asked NEC support if I can turn off the lamp via command line, but they seem resistant to recommend anything too involved to anyone but a qualified service tech.

[Leo Enticknap]

Actually, I'm not convinced that the fault is a bad LAN card (at least, not just a bad LAN card) if the wired remote unit and the button panel are unresponsive as well as the IP connection. If it consistently happens after a significant period with the lamp on, I'm thinking that heat cycling might be breaking a connection, that restores when everything contracts again. Diving in and reseating is the obvious next step to try, except for the risk of disrupting or breaking something in the process, and totally bricking the projector, as Marco notes above.

[Steve Kraus]

Not that I expect a different result but will that projector respond to a web browser like Series 2 or just DCC?

[Mike Matusek]

Actually, I'm not convinced that the fault is a bad LAN card (at least, not just a bad LAN card) if the wired remote unit and the button panel are unresponsive as well as the IP connection. If it consistently happens after a significant period with the lamp on, I'm thinking that heat cycling might be breaking a connection, that restores when everything contracts again. Diving in and reseating is the obvious next step to try, except for the risk of disrupting or breaking something in the process, and totally bricking the projector, as Marco notes above.

Thanks Leo. So the interesting thing is this will happen even with the lamp off. After killing the power and then back on, I'll ping the unit and get a signal that will eventually stop. Once it stops pinging, I'll have to power cycle it again. So I'm not sure if the lamp being on causes then problem. I used to see the issue only when the lamp was off, only recently did the same communication 0n/off issue start when the lamp was still on.

I have yet to test plugging a laptop with the DCC app directly into the LAN port, bypassing our house network, to see if that can force communication. Will try that soon and report back. Thanks!

[Mike Matusek]

Not that I expect a different result but will that projector respond to a web browser like Series 2 or just DCC?

Hello Steve. I'm not sure if our NC800C is a series 1 or 2? How would I try logging in via a web browser? Thanks!

[Steve Kraus]

I believe that is Series One which is why they no longer support it. Try pointing a browser (on a computer on the same LAN) to whatever address you point DCC to. On Series Two it returns a web page with some basic controls. If it does work during normal times I would fully expect it to not work when you experience your problem. But any port in a storm.

Maybe someone can give you guidance about what cards to try to reseat if you want to take the chance. Maybe for starters not even pull them but just move them a bit back and forth and see if that changes the problem at all. Don't proceed until you know what will need to be done to clear any security or tamper issues this triggers.

[Marcel Birgelen]

It's listed by NEC under the Series 1 projectors.